Is this just the beginning of rioting or will it subside?

[Tombs]

100% irrelevant to his murder. The officers who killed him didn't know his criminal history, and he had served his sentence and was released.

Our justice systems isn't supported to include being killed six years after being released from prison.

It's 100% relevant to national riots, national mourning, 3 funerals, and a golden casket.

 

[CampingJosh]

It's 100% relevant to national riots, national mourning, 3 funerals, and a golden casket.

Disagree.

The protests are about the uses of violence against the populace by governments (at multiple levels, in multiple areas) in an unjust manner. Mr. Floyd's death was an extreme example of government use of violence in an unjust manner. A government that can kill without due process is a tyranny.

That George Floyd wasn't the model citizen does not make government-sponsored violence against him justified. A citizen does not need to be a saint to expect justice. He committed armed robbery (or something like that), pleaded guilty, and served his sentence. That was justice served--and that was supposed to be the end of it.

I'm opposed to armed robbery; I'm also opposed to murdering felons who have served their sentence and been released from prison.

The issue is not George Floyd. The issue is government violence.

 

[BugI02]

My chosen solution to the possibility of an unpleasant encounter with law enforcement is to not commit any crimes. As I've said before, Mr Floyd should not have expected to die in police custody, but he forged the first link in that chain of events of his own free will. Who will call out his culpability in how events unfolded

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Disagree.

The protests are about the uses of violence against the populace by governments (at multiple levels, in multiple areas) in an unjust manner. Mr. Floyd's death was an extreme example of government use of violence in an unjust manner. A government that can kill without due process is a tyranny.

That George Floyd wasn't the model citizen does not make government-sponsored violence against him justified. A citizen does not need to be a saint to expect justice. He committed armed robbery (or something like that), pleaded guilty, and served his sentence. That was justice served--and that was supposed to be the end of it.

I'm opposed to armed robbery; I'm also opposed to murdering felons who have served their sentence and been released from prison.

The issue is not George Floyd. The issue is government violence.

Slavery was abolished. The people engaging in it are long dead. Hundreds of thousands of Americans (both black and white, but by far mostly white) died to make it so. That was supposed to be the end of it, yet some feel that people today should still be paying for it. See how that works?

On the other hand, young black men are killing other young black men at an alarming rate, FAR outstripping the rate of blacks being killed by police, yet nobody wants to talk about that. Address that problem and I think you will find that the perceived problem with unfair treatment of blacks by police will largely disappear. The solution is right there in front of them, yet they continue to ignore it. Why?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

My chosen solution to the possibility of an unpleasant encounter with law enforcement is to not commit any crimes. As I've said before, Mr Floyd should not have expected to die in police custody, but he forged the first link in that chain of events of his own free will. Who will call out his culpability in how events unfolded

As a teenager, I had a couple minor interactions with the police. I did dumb stuff. Fortunately, they weren’t so egregious that it meant going to jail and getting bogged down in the system. But still. Had I not made none of the choices I did to do the things that drew their attention, even those times would probably not have happened. Some people either don’t learn, can’t learn, or for some reason or another let themselves get caught in a harmful cycle.

 

[JettaKnight]

Slavery was abolished. The people engaging in it are long dead. Hundreds of thousands of Americans (both black and white, but by far mostly white) died to make it so. That was supposed to be the end of it, yet some feel that people today should still be paying for it. See how that works?

On the other hand, young black men are killing other young black men at an alarming rate, FAR outstripping the rate of blacks being killed by police, yet nobody wants to talk about that. Address that problem and I think you will find that the perceived problem with unfair treatment of blacks by police will largely disappear. The solution is right there in front of them, yet they continue to ignore it. Why?

Because that's a seemingly intractable problem.

But, to say it's being ignored is (willfully) myopic. I'm not sure how it works in Indy, but in Ft. Wayne there are many , many people working tirelessly to address that.



This reparations stuff is BS, but so is pretending that the US is a completely flat and level playing field. Within the last week, just from talking to people, I've realized there's way more unintentional racial bias than I thought existed.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Because that's a seemingly intractable problem.

But, to say it's being ignored is (willfully) myopic. I'm not sure how it works in Indy, but in Ft. Wayne there are many , many people working tirelessly to address that.



This reparations stuff is BS, but so is pretending that the US is a completely flat and level playing field. Within the last week, just from talking to people, I've realized there's way more unintentional racial bias than I thought existed.

To say that it IS being addressed is willfully myopic. Certainly here in Indy, in Chicago, in Minneapolis, and absolutely in Washington, DC. You're going to have people pushing back as long as they continue to point to what is a nearly statistically insignificant occurrence and holding it up as the norm, while ignoring the biggest problem. Is there shared blame? Certainly. Does one side have a vastly larger problem that is not being addressed? Even more certainly.

Look, when you have a headline that says, "Black man killed by white officer", but a page 3 liner note that says "25 killed in Chicago over the weekend", which do you think is going to receive the most attention?

 

[CampingJosh]

On the other hand, young black men are killing other young black men at an alarming rate, FAR outstripping the rate of blacks being killed by police, yet nobody wants to talk about that. Address that problem and I think you will find that the perceived problem with unfair treatment of blacks by police will largely disappear. The solution is right there in front of them, yet they continue to ignore it. Why?

My neighbor has three cats. Are we just saying things that have no relevance to the fact that agents of the government killed a citizen outside of the justice system?

Nobody wants to talk about it because those are two fundamentally different issues. George Floyd wasn't killed by the police because they thought he was going to kill other black people. Trying to tie the two issues together only serves to provide cover for tyrannical actions by government.

 

[CampingJosh]

To say that it IS being addressed is willfully myopic. Certainly here in Indy, in Chicago, in Minneapolis, and absolutely in Washington, DC. You're going to have people pushing back as long as they continue to point to what is a nearly statistically insignificant occurrence and holding it up as the norm, while ignoring the biggest problem. Is there shared blame? Certainly. Does one side have a vastly larger problem that is not being addressed? Even more certainly.

Look, when you have a headline that says, "Black man killed by white officer", but a page 3 liner note that says "25 killed in Chicago over the weekend", which do you think is going to receive the most attention?

Which should get more attention: one high school student beating up another, or one high school teacher beating up a student?

With the pay and authority comes extra responsibility and a higher level of scrutiny.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

My neighbor has three cats. Are we just saying things that have no relevance to the fact that agents of the government killed a citizen outside of the justice system?

Nobody wants to talk about it because those are two fundamentally different issues. George Floyd wasn't killed by the police because they thought he was going to kill other black people. Trying to tie the two issues together only serves to provide cover for tyrannical actions by government.

NOBODY is saying that Floyd's killing was justified! It was wrong, point blank, full stop. Stop it with the non-sequitur already, please. It's the portrayal of his death as being the biggest problem that this country and the black community in general faces is ridiculous on its face. When the number of black men killed unjustly by police in a country of 300+ million people in a YEAR is less than the number of black men killed by other black men in ONE CITY in a WEEKEND, there is an enormous disparity in the importance placed on the former.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Which should get more attention: one high school student beating up another, or one high school teacher beating up a student?

With the pay and authority comes extra responsibility and a higher level of scrutiny.

Are you freaking kidding me? The level of scrutiny is already there for police, to the point where they can't even do their jobs without fear of some kind of reprisal even when they do everything right. Bad cops and unjust actions should be prosecuted, and they are. The same cannot be said for the other situation.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I'm out for tonight. My blood pressure is high enough for one evening.

 

[CampingJosh]

NOBODY is saying that Floyd's killing was justified! It was wrong, point blank, full stop. Stop it with the non-sequitur already, please. It's the portrayal of his death as being the biggest problem that this country and the black community in general faces is ridiculous on its face. When the number of black men killed unjustly by police in a country of 300+ million people in a YEAR is less than the number of black men killed by other black men in ONE CITY in a WEEKEND, there is an enormous disparity in the importance placed on the former.

Two separate issues, but only one of them can be controlled by government. That's why it is the issue getting political attention.

 

[Tombs]

Disagree.

The protests are about the uses of violence against the populace by governments (at multiple levels, in multiple areas) in an unjust manner. Mr. Floyd's death was an extreme example of government use of violence in an unjust manner. A government that can kill without due process is a tyranny.

That George Floyd wasn't the model citizen does not make government-sponsored violence against him justified. A citizen does not need to be a saint to expect justice. He committed armed robbery (or something like that), pleaded guilty, and served his sentence. That was justice served--and that was supposed to be the end of it.

I'm opposed to armed robbery; I'm also opposed to murdering felons who have served their sentence and been released from prison.

The issue is not George Floyd. The issue is government violence.

If the issue was government violence, they wouldn't be looting and burning down black owned businesses, and destroying monuments dedicated to ending slavery.

And if stupidity is an excuse, then I have no pitty for them.

I could MAYBE understand it if they just targeted police and police departments, but that's not what they're doing.

And yes, they advocate collectivism, so I will treat them as they wish to be treated.

 

[Alpo]

Hmmm....I sort of agree with Josh. We have 18,000 law enforcement establishments in the USA (according to INGO). We have a national drug enforcement system deployed in the US.

I've never been Terry-stopped. In New York City...just NYC....there were almost 700,000 Terry Stops in 2012. Wanna guess how many were minorities?

There are real issues here. But riots and arson aren't solutions, they even **** me off to the point I won't begin to listen to their arguments and proposed solutions until the violence stops.

 

[CPT Nervous]

My neighbor has three cats. Are we just saying things that have no relevance to the fact that agents of the government killed a citizen outside of the justice system?

Nobody wants to talk about it because those are two fundamentally different issues. George Floyd wasn't killed by the police because they thought he was going to kill other black people. Trying to tie the two issues together only serves to provide cover for tyrannical actions by government.

Who's to say Floyd wouldn't have died sitting in the back of a police car? Floyd died in police custody. That isn't the same as being killed by police, and I believe you used the word "murdered" earlier in this thread. I am confident that the officer did not intend for Floyd to die, nor did he even realize that holding him in a prone position for so long could kill him. Murder requires intent.

 

[Alpo]

He's indicted on second degree murder charges.

To defend the cop is beyond the pale at this point.

 

[CPT Nervous]

Hmmm....I sort of agree with Josh. We have 18,000 law enforcement establishments in the USA (according to INGO). We have a national drug enforcement system deployed in the US.

I've never been Terry-stopped. In New York City...just NYC....there were almost 700,000 Terry Stops in 2012. Wanna guess how many were minorities?

There are real issues here. But riots and arson aren't solutions, they even **** me off to the point I won't begin to listen to their arguments and proposed solutions until the violence stops.

Have you ever been walking down the street in a known high crime/drug/prostitution area late at night? I'll bet most of those Terry stops occurred in areas like that. It doesn't have to be about race.

 

[Tombs]

Who's to say Floyd wouldn't have died sitting in the back of a police car? Floyd died in police custody. That isn't the same as being killed by police, and I believe you used the word "murdered" earlier in this thread. I am confident that the officer did not intend for Floyd to die, nor did he even realize that holding him in a prone position for so long could kill him. Murder requires intent.

1st and 2nd degree murder require intent. 3rd degree murder doesn't.
2nd degree gets a bit iffy and cloudy on where it's applicable.

I think the officer will walk if they only prosecute for 2nd degree. He's somewhere between 2nd and 3rd degree.

 

[CPT Nervous]

He's indicted on second degree murder charges.

To defend the cop is beyond the pale at this point.

Not defending what he did. Just saying it's not murder. Manslaughter, perhaps. They're going to have a heck of a time proving murder.