IS THIS LEGAL?

[Kimber]

Ok if any one can help me it would be a great help. My son-in-law ran into some hard times and had to pawn his AR. he has since left the state and gave me the pawn ticket. I went to the pawn shop to pick up the rifle and the owner said he can only release it to the person named on the ticket. doesn't matter if i have the cash or not. Is this really a law or am i getting ripped???

 

[SideArmed]

I would think that if the 30 days have passed (or what ever the terms of the loan were) the pawn dealer would be able to sell the item outright, as it is his now. This is assuming the time has passed on the pawn. Of course he will probably jack up the price of it then.

 

[eldirector]

Quite possibly.

Indiana Code 28-7-5

IC 28-7-5-22
Presumptive right of ticket holder to redeem; compliance with local ordinance or law concerning pledge retention
Sec. 22. (a) The holder of a ticket described in section 21 of this chapter shall be presumed to be the person entitled to redeem the pledge, and, except as provided in subsection (b), the pawnbroker shall deliver the pledge to the person presenting the ticket, upon payment of principal, interest and charge.
(b) If a local ordinance or other law requires the retention of the pledge for a specific period of time, the pawnbroker shall comply with the local ordinance or other law if the retention period does not exceed ten (10) days.

Maybe your son-in-law can do something by mail?

IC 28-7-5-23
Redemption by mail; compliance with local ordinance or law concerning pledge retention
Sec. 23. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b), when a ticket, instead of being presented in person, is sent to the pawnbroker by mail, accompanied with a money order for the total amount due and a reasonable fee for shipping and handling, the pawnbroker may securely pack and forward the pledge to the pledger in accordance with the remitter's instructions. If the remittance is insufficient to cover the amount due, the pawnbroker shall either notify the remitter of the amount of the deficiency or send the pledge subject to the payment of shipping charges by the consignee. The pawnbroker's liability for the pledge shall cease upon delivery of the pledge to the carrier or his agent.
(b) If a local ordinance or other law requires the retention of the pledge for a specific period, the pawnbroker shall comply with the local ordinance or other law if the retention period does not exceed ten (10) days.

 

[Kimber]

I am wanting to pick the AR up before the date stamped on the ticket expires. I have the ticket so what i am saying is can he refuse to sell it to me for the pawned price just because my name is not on the ticket?

 

[Scutter01]

I'd be interested in the answer as well. Is the pawn shop an FFL? It seems like if he was, there'd have to be a 4473 regardless of who picks it up. If he's not an FFL, maybe the fact that it's a rifle is why he's telling you "no". Seems like that would be a good way to "launder" a firearm and put the straw purchase onus on the pawn shop rather than the seller.

 

[ckcollins2003]

IMO, the rifle is still owned by your son-in-law until the date on the ticket hits. Then it becomes the pawn shops property. I can see why they won't give you the item. If they gave the property to you, they'd be held liable if your son-in-law went to pick up the rifle at a later date. I'm not saying that you or your son-in-law are trying to rip them off, but I'd be pretty disappointed if I had to pawn something off, then went to pick it up before the date on the ticket expired and found out that they had sold it to someone else...

I think your best bet is to get your son-in-law to go in with you, have him reclaim the property, then give it to you as a gift.

 

[JohnE]

When did the law change to where you can pawn a weapon? I know it used to be that the only way was to sell it not able to pawn one?

 

[Nightwalker65]

When did the law change to where you can pawn a weapon? I know it used to be that the only way was to sell it not able to pawn one?

To the best of my knowledge(I can't quote Indiana statutes),that only applies to handguns....I've pawned several long guns over the years.

 

[kludge]

AFAIK that only applies to handguns, as in you can't secure a loan using a handgun as collateral.

 

[JohnE]

Thanks Nightwalker. I've must have been thinking of pistols and not long guns.

 

[kludge]

D'OH! mere seconds!

 

[mjrducky]

I'd be interested in the answer as well. Is the pawn shop an FFL? It seems like if he was, there'd have to be a 4473 regardless of who picks it up. If he's not an FFL, maybe the fact that it's a rifle is why he's telling you "no". Seems like that would be a good way to "launder" a firearm and put the straw purchase onus on the pawn shop rather than the seller.

Im thinking the same thing. If you pick it up, there should be a 4473 otherwise you could be an unlawful person and should not have it. I also don't see how they could give it to you without more from your son. If he writes to them they would have to ship to an FFL. Again if hes out of state he might have a hard time getting it depending on the state since he's not a resident of that state or doesn't allow IN Residents to buy long guns.

If he doesnt pick it up then they can sell it to you...

 

[JoshuaW]

Better question, isn't it illegal to secure a loan with a firearm?

 

[MikeA]

Better question, isn't it illegal to secure a loan with a firearm?

hand gun=Illegal
long gun=not illegal

 

[the1kidd03]

the pawn shop that SELLS the property(firearm) must be an FFL holder...as it is personal property they can give you a loan against it, nothing wrong with that...but if you don't repay it in a certain amount of time they sell it as a typical firearms sell......doesn't matter whether it's a long gun or handgun...same thing goes..........I've purchased through pawn shops in other states and regularly check some local pawns because you can occasionally come across some really good deals.......them taking in firearms is no different then taking anything else and perfectly legal.....so long as they are an FFL holder in order to resell it at their location......I know of one pawn company that is a nation wide chain....they take in guns all across the nation, but then ship ALL of them to their location in TX (I think)...and it's THAT store which sells them via local store front and online because that location is the FFL holder

 

[JetGirl]

It's the same thing as leaving a gun for consignment. Upon leaving it in the store, you must present I.D. such as a driver's license (which gets copied down).
Upon picking it up, the license has to match.
And you have to fill out a 4473 to pick it up.

If you pick it up, there should be a 4473

He can't pick it up for someone else.

 

[Fullmag]

By certified mail can he give (father -in-law) permission to pick it up? Assuming he is to far away come and get on a weekend.

 

[bassplayrguy]

Anything you pawn requires id to pick it up. They require ID at the time of the loan and at the time of pickup.

 

[Bradsknives]

By law the person that present the pawn ticket has a legal right to redeem the item as long as they pay the principal and interest that is due on the loan. Even though the loan is only 30 days the pawn broker must hold every item for 90 days and at anytime the pledger or holder of the pawn ticket can redeem the item but will have to pay the extra interest that is due if the loan has gone over 30 days. All pawn shops that deal or loan on firearms have to have their FFL. You will have to fill out a 4473 and go through the background check. Note: Pawn shops can only loan on long guns, it is illegal to loan money on handguns in the state of Indiana. They can buy and sell handguns, they just can't loan money on them. If the pawn shop is not willing to redeem the loan when you present them the pawn ticket, I would suggest calling the Indiana Department of Financial Institutions....they govern and enforce all state statutes regarding the pawn industry.

I'm speaking from experience as I was in the pawn business for 15 year and unless the pawn laws have changed since I have been out of that business you have every right to redeem that loan.

 

[G_Stines]

IC 28-7-5-22
Presumptive right of ticket holder to redeem; compliance with local ordinance or law concerning pledge retention
Sec. 22. (a) The holder of a ticket described in section 21 of this chapter shall be presumed to be the person entitled to redeem the pledge, and, except as provided in subsection (b), the pawnbroker shall deliver the pledge to the person presenting the ticket, upon payment of principal, interest and charge.
(b) If a local ordinance or other law requires the retention of the pledge for a specific period of time, the pawnbroker shall comply with the local ordinance or other law if the retention period does not exceed ten (10) days.

By law the person that present the pawn ticket has a legal right to redeem the item as long as they pay the principal and interest that is due on the loan. Even though the loan is only 30 days the pawn broker must hold every item for 90 days and at anytime the pledger or holder of the pawn ticket can redeem the item but will have to pay the extra interest that is due if the loan has gone over 30 days. All pawn shops that deal or loan on firearms have to have their FFL. You will have to fill out a 4473 and go through the background check. Note: Pawn shops can only loan on long guns, it is illegal to loan money on handguns in the state of Indiana. They can buy and sell handguns, they just can't loan money on them. If the pawn shop is not willing to redeem the loan when you present them the pawn ticket, I would suggest calling the Indiana Department of Financial Institutions....they govern and enforce all state statutes regarding the pawn industry.

I'm speaking from experience as I was in the pawn business for 15 year and unless the pawn laws have changed since I have been out of that business you have every right to redeem that loan.

So my take is that... You, OP, being the holder of the ticket, are now entitled to that item provided that you fill out the 4473, and pass NICS, it is yours to retrieve. Also, a call from your SIL talking directly to the broker could go a long way. I would write down, print out, ect the IC code posted here and take it to the shop in person.