It's cold enough to test now

[sloughfoot]

I guess if they were planning on leaving their guns outside to get "cold soaked" this would make sense, maybe if they plan on OCing outside all day? Security guards and LEOs?

All I am saying is its a good time to test your firearms. Especially those with lightened springs. None of us can guarantee that our firearms won't get cold soaked and we should all be confident that they will work under all conditions. I have nothing in to whether you do or don't.

A personal experience. A couple days ago I was at my daughters and she OC'S a Model 10 .38 Special revolver while working out in the barn taking care of her horses. On a whim, I said, hand me your gun. I went out back and cranked off 6 rounds into a berm. 2 of the 6 were so low powered that we could see the bullets travel to the berm. I replaced the lightened hammer spring with the factory one and put several cylinders through it with full power velocities. Was it lube congealing or light hammer strikes.... I don't know. But we got reliable ignition with the stock hammer spring at 10 degrees OAT.

If you think your gun will never get exposed to the cold, then none of this applies to you. My daughter won't be lightening up her springs in the future.

 

[churchmouse]

All I am saying is its a good time to test your firearms. Especially those with lightened springs. None of us can guarantee that our firearms won't get cold soaked and we should all be confident that they will work under all conditions. I have nothing in to whether you do or don't.

A personal experience. A couple days ago I was at my daughters and she OC'S a Model 10 .38 Special revolver while working out in the barn taking care of her horses. On a whim, I said, hand me your gun. I went out back and cranked off 6 rounds into a berm. 2 of the 6 were so low powered that we could see the bullets travel to the berm. I replaced the lightened hammer spring with the factory one and put several cylinders through it with full power velocities. Was it lube congealing or light hammer strikes.... I don't know. But we got reliable ignition with the stock hammer spring at 10 degrees OAT.

If you think your gun will never get exposed to the cold, then none of this applies to you. My daughter won't be lightening up her springs in the future.

If the round ignites at all it should run its course as loaded. Factory loads...???............Home brew..????

The weather should not effect the charge. If it touches off the round should not be hampered by temp.

 

[sloughfoot]

Factory Winchester loads.

It is well known that the amount of energy transferred to the primer directly effects the amount of energy output of the primer. I learned this in EOD school many years ago. It is why we do special things to ensure full ignition in cold weather.

A charge of powder hit with a magnum primer will be more energetic than when hit with a normal primer. A charge hit with a light primer may not even totally ignite. And this is what happens in the cold.

 

[churchmouse]

Factory Winchester loads.

It is well known that the amount of energy transferred to the primer directly effects the amount of energy output of the primer. I learned this in EOD school many years ago. It is why we do special things to ensure full ignition in cold weather.

A charge of powder hit with a magnum powder will be more energetic than when hit with a normal primer. A charge hit with a light primer may not even totally ignite. And this is what happens in the cold.

OK that clears that up. Thanks.

 

[sloughfoot]

All I am saying, your firearms should be tested for reliable function in all conditions.

I go to the range frequently to verify zeros and functioning. My wife thinks I am crazy to go to the range when the weather is down. I have found that factory springs work under all conditions. Aftermarket light springs do not.

Just my personal experience. FWIW.

 

[CZ evo3]

I had this problem last month at a sanctioned IDPA match in Evansville. I decided to compete in SSR divisions, and it was freezing cold that morning. I was lucky to have my 686 fire 4 shots per cylinder. I was absolutely furious, so I decided to quit after the first stage ($90 match fee wasted) and took it back to my pistolsmith. Lubrication and springs!

Sloughfoot- you should have brought this up in October and saved me some grief!

 

[HEADKNOCKER]

Need to get to Henryville to the range & set some rounds free..
It's brisk out today & just about when guys are having trouble starting their cars etc. is when you can know that you're guns can be tested..
I will admit that lots of lubes get really gelled when below freezing, The thicker they are the worse it gets..
Light springs etc. will only make it worse if the fitting hasn't been done properly..
Gary/Hk

 

[88E30M50]

-6 out there this morning. I'm pretty confident that my factory sprung gun will work, but I have serious doubts about me.

 

[churchmouse]

-6 out there this morning. I'm pretty confident that my factory sprung gun will work, but I have serious doubts about me.

I am not that interested in testing the "Me" part of this equation.

 

[Expat]

Maybe a mod should look at this guys language...jeez...

I would extend the test into your rifles and shotguns; especially auto loaders.

Back in the day, my 1100 got many thorough tests successfully completed in sub zero weather.

 

[88E30M50]

I spent a day shooting out at MCFG a couple of years ago in 8 degree weather. It felt a lot warmer though, as there was no wind and lots of sunshine and I don't think it was a fair test as the guns were cold, but with sitting in the sun, not really really cold. That's about as cold as I've shot so far.

 

[gmcttr]

I had this problem last month at a sanctioned IDPA match in Evansville. I decided to compete in SSR divisions, and it was freezing cold that morning. I was lucky to have my 686 fire 4 shots per cylinder. I was absolutely furious, so I decided to quit after the first stage ($90 match fee wasted) and took it back to my pistolsmith. Lubrication and springs! ...

It might have been worth tightening up the mainspring strain screw to see if that made enough difference to finish the match.

 

[1775usmarine]

I am in. You get your graph paper. I will look for my slide rule (some more)

I have found it does not take a long time to cold soak a pistol. You will find that this test will also show you a lot about the lube's you are using in your pieces.

This is why I only use Milsurp CLP. I had no issues when we were at Mt Fuji and had weather like this plus the smell takes me back to the glory days.

 

[natdscott]

Sloughfoot, I don't mean to hijack by any means, but you have opened up a wonderful thread, so...

--Also: Check your scopes. Put the entire rifle outdoors for an hour or two, and then grab it and try to adjust magnification, parallax, and turret settings. You may find some interesting 'surprises'.

--And any triggers you have that are 3 or 4 lever (Like JEWELL), it is good to take them outside UNLOADED, and test those triggers to see if they freeze up and stick. Really, ALL triggers.


Ok. Off soapbox.

-Nate

 

[Grelber]

Factory Winchester loads.

It is well known that the amount of energy transferred to the primer directly effects the amount of energy output of the primer. I learned this in EOD school many years ago. It is why we do special things to ensure full ignition in cold weather.

A charge of powder hit with a magnum primer will be more energetic than when hit with a normal primer. A charge hit with a light primer may not even totally ignite. And this is what happens in the cold.

Do you have a link to any articles or studies on that? Never heard of powder extinguishing without burning once a charge is ignited, could easily understand a reasonable velocity spread related to primers.

 

[sloughfoot]

Google "Primer Brisance". All kinds of research will pop up.

 

[71silverbullet]

Google "Primer Brisance". All kinds of research will pop up.

Lots of reading there but, I can't find any relating to harder primer strike=hotter primer ignition.
While not necessarily doubting you, I have always thought the primer was basically go or no go. If it gets whacked hard enough to ignite it then it burns at full rate, and a light primer strike=no ignition.
Temperature does definitely effect powder burn rate.

 

[Grelber]

Lots of reading there but, I can't find any relating to harder primer strike=hotter primer ignition.

Tweaks my curiosity in particular because I shoot CZ's and Tanfo's set for the lightest d.a. weight I can get by with and I've got a competition tuned revolver I like to play around with.
The competitions I shoot require 1st shot d.a. so I get a minimal first strike at the start of every stage and then subsequent fairly hard s.a. strikes on all other shots.

After many thousands of rounds I've never noted any power difference regardless of s.a./d.a. or what hammer spring/firing pin/etc that I was playing with, unless I tweaked too far and there was no ignition.

 

[71silverbullet]

I do agree it is a great time to test your weapons and accessories, and plan on conducting such test Saturday.

 

[Dundee]

I had this problem last month at a sanctioned IDPA match in Evansville. I decided to compete in SSR divisions, and it was freezing cold that morning. I was lucky to have my 686 fire 4 shots per cylinder. I was absolutely furious, so I decided to quit after the first stage ($90 match fee wasted) and took it back to my pistolsmith. Lubrication and springs!

Sloughfoot- you should have brought this up in October and saved me some grief!

Holy crap, $90 to shot an IDPA match... Glad I’m not in Eville.