It's Mosin time!!!

[N_K_1984]

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...r_accurizing_the_nagant_family_of_rifles.html

This is a topic that seems to come up a lot around here, and I often weigh in on it. I wanted to post up this information that was passed on to me by Mr. Ken Norberg of Rock Solid Ind. Rock Solid Industries - Rifle Accessories - Mosin Nagant

I hope all of you fellow Mosin nuts out there enjoy this.

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The first 2 pics are from a customer who shoots an M-39 set up like mine, he also shoots my load. The 3rd pic is of a Finn M39 7.62X54R with a Sightron 6X target scope on a Rock Solid mount. This setup won the 2008 CBA Military Rifle Modified Scope Class Nationals and holds several CBA Military Rifle cast bullet National Records Also a link on pillar bedding. As well as a tip on free floating your barrel.. Again if you need any help or have a question don?t hesitate to contact me.
Ken Norberg
R.S.I.

THE ABSOLTE BEST CUSTOM GUN STOCKS FOR THE MOSIN NAGANT AT A GREAT PRICE!!

http://www.loweldesigns.com/


The key to a great load for the 762x54 is IMR 4350!!! On a 150 grain bullet load 52 grains low and 55 grains top. A 180 grain load is the same 52gr low 55gr top. The load best is a Sierra 303 cal .311 dia 174gr HPBT match bullet #2315 over 54gr of IMR 4350. The OAL is 3.050 seated right out to the lands. I use a federal 210 match grade or a CCI bench rest primer and Lupua brass neck sized only. This load will split hairs at 100yrds in fact I have on repeated occasions punched one ragged hole with as many as 12 to 15 rounds at 100yrds!!!
NO BS!!! My personal best that was witnessed at 800yrds 3?. This was with a 1944 Sako M39. Our mount and a Shepherd P2 counter sniper scope.When loading for a carbine M-38 or M-44 we have found that bullets with a long barring surface work best. 150-180 round nose flat
base. I will put a medium crump on all of my loads . I highly
Recommend the Lee factory crimp. We have found that by using it on all factory mil-surp ammo you can cut the size of your groups by ¼ to ½.
Ken



How to smooth out and speed up the Mosin Nagant bolt action rifle.

The picture sent with these instructions parts ID are.

1 Extractor
2 Bolt Head
3 Firing Pin Spring
4 Firing Pin
5 Connecting Bar
6 Cocking Piece
7 Bolt Body

Part 5 the connecting bar is the main pivot point of the bolt and the key to a smooth/fast action. Start buy a very complete cleaning of all the parts. Rubbing alcohol works great on crusty Russian cosmoline.
Next using a scotch brite pad clean the two male ends on the connecting bar. Then clean the inside of the bolt head with the pad, also the bolt body end that slips over the male end of the connecting bar. If you have a polishing wheel then buff the two male ends.

Reassemble.

Use a good quality grease like white lithium Lith-Ease or a high quality silicon grease.
Next you apply a heavy coat to the two male ends on the connecting bar and the inside of the bolt head as well to the inside lip of the bolt body. I also apply some to the guide ring on the firing pin. Don?t worry about the grease squeezing out of the bolt when you put back together, just wipe off the excess after you have reassembled.
Caution? some silicon lubes if put down the bore will throw off your shots. So remember to wipe the bolt down. I learned this the hard way.
Ken

Free floating the barrel.

The best way I have found to free float a barrel is to take a piece of ¾ white pvc plastic water pipe about 8? long. Wrap it with sand paper 60 grit if working with a composite ati stock and a less aggressive grit if your working a wood stock. Work this back and forth in the barrel channel.You will need to check your progress by putting the action in the stock looking at the float. The ideal float for me is a sheet of note paper folded 3 times that will slide under and around the barrel from the tip of the forearm back to the action.

Polishing the bore.

The Mosin Nagant is not a chrome lined barrel but you can shine it
just like one. I can not stress this enough IT WILL IMPROVE ACCURACY!
It is a well known fact non chrome lined barrels give the best accuracy. Most of the mil-surp rifles on the market today have been in military storage depots for 50 to 60 years. The Cosmoline they used prevented rust, but stained the bore. This can be removed and shined up improving accuracy buy using a product found in the auto section with the waxes and polish of your local Wal-Mart. The name of the product is Never Dull silver can black lettering. W hen you open it up it looks like spun cotton candy. Put your slotted cleaning tip on your rod and run it thru the bore so the slotted tip is sticking out the muzzle. Pull a jag of never dull out and work it thru the slot, the jag should be large enough to be tight fit when pulled back into the bore. Work this back and forth in the bore. When the first jag is removed it will most likely be tar black. Now run 2 clean patches thru the bore. I like to break in a new mil-surp bore by running 5 jags of Never Dull with clean patches between jags on the 5th jag I use a large clean patch to buff the bore. After shooting I always finish cleaning the bore with a jag of Never Dull and a clean patch then oil the bore.




Pillar bedding: the link I am sending is on a K-31 but the principal is the same! The end result will be that the only the reciver is locked into the stock. Also go to the 1st page on our site,click on the story of the heavy barrel with the thumb hole stock. Read how he set the action in the stock.

http://theswissriflesdotcommessageboard.yuku.com/topic/899


Last but not least!
Next look at the trigger you will probably need to work it over, or replace it? It boils down to what works for you, but a SNAP CAP will help you get your trigger control down with out shooting ammo. This is something I do on a regular basis. Set down in a room with a window and set a sand bag on a table, pick a target looking out the window.
When you get your trigger pull down the cross hairs won?t move making the shot.
New Trigger


http://timneytriggers.com/sunshop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=50


Good Reading Links

http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=29075


http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=95625



Here is my M44 that I've built with parts and advice from Ken at Rock Solid Ind.

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__________________

i did the polish job on mine. I can still lightly see my tooling marks. don't remove much material, just clean it and polish it. I just used a buffing wheel on my dremel tool. It shouldn't remove much material.

Quote:
Next using a scotch brite pad clean the two male ends on the connecting bar. Then clean the inside of the bolt head with the pad, also the bolt body end that slips over the male end of the connecting bar. If you have a polishing wheel then buff the two male ends
Quote:
Buffing and polishing using wheels and compounds is somewhat like using wet and dry sand paper, only much faster. Instead of using 'elbow grease' you will be using the power and speed of an electric motor.

The edge, or face, of the wheel is the 'sanding block', which carries a thin layer of compound which is the sandpaper. Varying types of wheel are available, and the different grades of compound are scaled similar to sandpaper. The compounds are made from a wax substance which has the different abrasive powders added to it. When this hard block is applied to the edge of a spinning buffing wheel, the heat from the friction melts the wax, and both wax and abrasive are applied in a thin slick to the face of the wheel.​

The objective of buffing and polishing is to make a rough surface into a smooth one and, of course, each work piece will be in a different condition, so will need different procedures. Imagine the surface magnified thousands of times, it will look like jagged mountains and valleys. By repeated abrasion, you are going to wear down those mountains until they are old, soft, rolling hills! Then they will not dissipate the light, but reflect it. It is the reflection that makes the buffed part appear shiny.

...Before you go grinding or polishing anything, i tell you what CorvetteTom, get a .308 chamber brush, a (30cal?)dowel rod, some .30cal cleaning supplies, some windex, compressed air, and then scrub that chamber! The windex works great to loosen copper fouling, degreases, and will get that cosmoline loose.

With the Mosin Nagant, copper fouling and cosmoline are your worst enemies!

Amonia is your friend! (i.e. Windex!)

Here's what I did. I went and bought a dowel rod at the local craft store, as close as possible to 30cal. Cut a piece off the dowel, and shave just a small amount off the dowel as if you were sharpening it... plug the end of your barrel. Now, hang it muzzle down, in the shower, and fill that puppy full of windex all the way up, I mean all the way up. Let it soak.

Drain the barrel and action, use a .308 chamber brush to clean the chamber, throat, and the locking lug recesses. Inspect thoroughly and often. If you have access to compressed air, blow the action out. If you need to loosen any hardened particles, sharpen that dowel rod you bought, use it to scrape the chamber. The windex should have softened it up enough for the dowel to be effective. Inspect and repeat as necessary. Use the windex to clean the barrel too. Keep running patches on a .30cal jag through the barrel until the patches come out clean (just blue from the windex.) The amonia is a really effective cleaner! scrub that action until she's shiny!!! just be patient and be diligent, it will pay off. When that sucker is good, clean, and dry, Oil her up and that bolt hopefully will close/lock/open like it should, and you will be a happy Mosin owner. I promise. Just keep up on the cleaning.

There is a common method of cleaning the mosin chamber and locking lug recesses with a 12g shotgun brush and a drill, just be patient, use the windex and hand power at first.

My bolt opens, closes, and locks effortlessly, like it was designed to... I never used any power tools to achieve this. If I was at home, I would throw a video up of how smooth my action is. Windex, elbow grease, and determination paid off!

Inspect that chamber though! Use mirrors, flashlights, whatever you have your disposal. You'd be surprised at how little of debris can clog that action up. Keep that action clean!

So you’ve picked up a Mosin Nagant for an excellent price and the next step is to put a scope on this hi-powered rifle. The 7.62.54R falls in between the .308 (7.62×51) and the .30-06 (7.62×63), and is also similar to .303 British (7.7x56mmR). This rifle is perfect for hunting and long-range shooting – it’s practically begging to be scoped.
Unfortunately, the Mosin Nagant wasn’t really designed to be scoped and the options available will in most cases cost more than the rifle, even before purchasing the actual optic. Some of the solutions involve drilling and tapping the rifle, which can be difficult if you don’t have the right tools or are uncomfortable with potentially marring your firearm.
Overall there are two basic options; the “scout” mount, which is forward on the rifle and uses a long eye relief (LER) scope similar to those used on pistols, or the traditional location over the bolt using standard scopes. Both have their pros and cons.
Scout Mount
This is the easiest and least expensive of the two options, but means you must 1) remove the rear sight assembly and 2) use a LER scope (though this might be an acceptable option if you wear eyeglasses). These are both cons for me since I like having see-thru mounts that allow the use of iron sights as a backup, and I don’t really care for LER scopes. If you don’t care about either of those things, you’ve found your solution and are set.
There are a few options here. There are several systems where part of the rear sight is removed and a mounting system, usually with a weaver/picatinny rail, are installed (photos). This allows for standard mounts to be used and a wide variety of appropriate LER scopes.
Some have noted that if the entire rear sight assembly is removed on a 91/30 Mosin Nagant, 3/8” male dovetail grooves are revealed, the same as on modern .22 rifles and airguns. This means you can purchase some cheap but still quality 1” rings for about $10 and mount a scope. However, you’ll have to work to get the sight assembly removed:

[There are] two pins holding the sight base on, and they usually have a dab of solder on the base to dovetail. Gentle heating with a small torch to melt the solder, then tap the base forward and it comes right off.
​

Besides not needing to drill/tap any holes in your rifle, another pro is that you can retain the straight bolt.
S&K Scope Mounts offers a product for this (though the ordering method looks cumbersome), as does Tick Bite Supply.
Traditional Mount
Scopes mounted in the normal fashion are, to me and many others, simple easier to use. In most cases removing the scope allows the use of iron sights, another pro. However, to use a scope in this position the straight bolt on the Mosin Nagant must be bent. Right out of the gates that’s an expense.
There are some kits that include the bent bolt or part for modifying it. Personally I don’t have the tools required and don’t want to take a chance at mutilating my rifle. The most popular kit is from ATI; it includes a rail that must be drilled/tapped and part of a bolt that also requires machining. It doesn’t have very good reviews.
This brings up the bolt. The Mosin Nagant has a straight bolt that comes up right into the space a traditionally mounted scope would be. The only solution for a scope mounted there is to have the bolt bent or in someway modified for the same effect. From all I’ve read, one of the best sources for getting this done is a vendor who goes by “The Boltman.”
Another option is what the Soviets used for their sniper rifles, which is a left-side mounted (drilled/tapped) plate that comes up for the scope mount. This still requires the bent bolt.
There are a few companies that make custom mounts for the Mosin Nagant (again, need a bent bolt to use them).

• Jmeck – I like this one because it’s a see-thru mount and doesn’t require any drilling/tapping. Seems to have a good reputation on the various forums, and there is a You Tube video of the mount installation by a customer.
• Rock Solid Industries – This looks like a well made product that will fit the bill. They note it’s low profile, and offer bolts (higher cost than Boltman, however). Cannot use iron sights.
• Advanced Rifle Parts – This mount attaches to the rear sight assembly to provide the traditional scope placement, and also seems well made. Cannot use iron sights.
• Tick Bite Supply – Offers several options, including the scout type mounts described above, and a hideous tactical tri-rail mount that is just wrong for a Mosin Nagant.

Conclusion
The scout mount is much less expensive and is probably easier to implement, while the Jmeck mount seems to be what I’d prefer (though the mount would cost more than a new rifle and the bolt would need to be bent on top of that, all before purchasing the scope!).
Though I don’t care for the scout setup, I may consider it for my Mosin Nagant due to cost concerns. Perhaps I can get used to it and even prefer it for a high powered rifle, but it’ll be a few months before I need to decide anything.

 

[N_K_1984]

good luck!

 

[ShooterLee]

+1 for a great post! You are the man.

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get a Mosin today. Every gun shop seemed to be completely out.

 

[Libertarian01]

ShooterLee (Et Alia),

I would like to urge you to reconsider taking a wonderful piece of firearms history and diminishing it.

Mosins along with all old military rifles are going to slowly diminish in numbers over time thanks to fires, accidents, losses and simple abuse. To further accelerate this destruction of history only serves to increase the rate of ignorance that we all operate under.

I am always amazed at the beauty, design and details of these old firearms. These details are lost forever when people seek to personalize these pieces of history without regard to the intrinsic value of their original form. The youth of tomorrow will be less able to appreciate what the original Soviet soldier endured because there will be less original rifles for them to hold, feel and fully understand the weight and balance of these historic pieces.

I know that these rifles are inexpensive now. Alas, so were the Springfield M1903's not so many decades ago. Thousands of those great rifles were also ruined by folks at the time who didn't appreciate that their numbers would also diminish and now it is much more difficult to see what the American Doughboys of the AEF had to use. We should learn from our past mistakes so as to not repeat them.

If you feel it necessary to butcher a piece of history I would urge you to take some time and study the Mosins you are looking at buying. Try to make certain that it is an Izhevsk round receiver from 1935 - 1944. At least in that small thing you will not blindly be ruining an already less common piece of history.

Regards,

Doug

 

[mammynun]

ShooterLee (Et Alia),

I would like to urge you to reconsider taking a wonderful piece of firearms history and diminishing it.

Mosins along with all old military rifles are going to slowly diminish in numbers over time thanks to fires, accidents, losses and simple abuse. To further accelerate this destruction of history only serves to increase the rate of ignorance that we all operate under.

I am always amazed at the beauty, design and details of these old firearms. These details are lost forever when people seek to personalize these pieces of history without regard to the intrinsic value of their original form. The youth of tomorrow will be less able to appreciate what the original Soviet soldier endured because there will be less original rifles for them to hold, feel and fully understand the weight and balance of these historic pieces.

I know that these rifles are inexpensive now. Alas, so were the Springfield M1903's not so many decades ago. Thousands of those great rifles were also ruined by folks at the time who didn't appreciate that their numbers would also diminish and now it is much more difficult to see what the American Doughboys of the AEF had to use. We should learn from our past mistakes so as to not repeat them.

If you feel it necessary to butcher a piece of history I would urge you to take some time and study the Mosins you are looking at buying. Try to make certain that it is an Izhevsk round receiver from 1935 - 1944. At least in that small thing you will not blindly be ruining an already less common piece of history.

Regards,

Doug

While I agree with the ideas in this post, I do find it strange that they come from a person with the name "Libertarian01."

The Mosin is, after all, the OP's property.

 

[N_K_1984]

ShooterLee, when and if you purchase a Mosin Nagant, it will be YOUR rifle, as long as you are responsible and safe, do with it what YOU want.

As far as arguing with Libertarian01, I will not. He has a valid opinion and I respect that. We are all entitled to our opinions. As long as he wants to keep his Mosin Nagant rifles stock and historically accurate, that is fine with me. There are some pieces of military history that should be preserved.

(Here's where I'm not trying to peeve you off Libertarian01, I promise) I don't own a museum, so my Mosin Nagant is not in factory configuration. My Mosin is not factory restored. My Mosin is stripped of her factory furniture, her bayonet is stripped, her iron sights have been removed, but her heart and spirit (if a rifle is capable of owning such) is intact. Sure, my mosin might be worth $25 to a true collector, but it's priceless to me. I respect my rifle and I love shooting it. It brings me happiness and puts a smile on my face. To me, that is more valuable than any collector's value...

-Mosin Nagant: $75.00
-ATI stock: $59.97
-Sniper bolt handle and body: $69.99
-Action screws: $12.00
-Aluminum Bedding Pillars: $10
-Scope Mount: $99.00
-Scope / Rings: clearanced at $280.00
-Hours spent working, reworking, and working some more on a $75 gun: Countless
-The smile on my face as my custom built Mosin Nagant M44 throws a fireball and rings steel at 250 yards: Priceless

There are some things money can't buy...

 

[ShooterLee]

Thanks for the concern "Libertarian01". However, my knowledge of Mosins far exceed that of your common gun owner. I have studied and handled many many of these great rifles. You have my word that I will not be cutting up an ex-sniper or anything of real value.

I have a Mosin that is and will always be in original condition. So when the museums come knocking on my door for a WWII relic, I will hand them that one, and keep my mutilated bad boy for personal enjoyment.

I promise you, I am what some may call a perfectionist, and while this may be my first Mosin build, it will not be a 2-day project. I respect the rifle for what it is, so every mod will be done with the utmost respect for its historical value. However, when the day is done, a gun is a gun, and it is my gun. I can do with it what I please.

Although you may not agree with the process, I hope you can at least enjoy the fact that when complete, this Mosin will outperform any other in its original configuration. So don't see this project as a "butcher" of a classic firearm. See it as tapping a resource from history, and idea as a platform to build a high performance modern rifle.

Anytime someone sees me shooting this rifle (when its complete), I will tell them its a Mosin-Nagant. If not saving the actual piece, I will be preserving the name and the history of one of the most fascinating weapons in the history of the world.

Regards,


Nick

 

[Don]

Bubba Fudd knows no bounds to cut up a Finn m39, geeze.

 

[N_K_1984]

Anytime someone sees me shooting this rifle (when its complete), I will tell them its a Mosin-Nagant. If not saving the actual piece, I will be preserving the name and the history of one of the most fascinating weapons in the history of the world.

Well said ShooterLee +1.

This is my gun, there are many like it, but this one is mine.

 

[emst52]

Id love to hear more about you guys making your Mosins more to your likeing i may be in the market for one more to customize. There are only what 3 billion of there out there. I really dont see the prices of a super comon 91/30 ever selling for a M1 price but ill have a few that are as original as possible. Its just like cars people are always gonna chop cut and rebuild them to others dislike . So keep doin what your doin!

 

[Libertarian01]

To All,

I would like to thank everyone for their kind responses. I will be the first to defend folks liberty to do what they want with what is theirs. However, just because we can do a thing doesn't mean we should do a thing.

Consider this: I will pay $10 to anyone who, after reading this, can go out and purchase an original Brown Bess. There were millions of them made, so they must be all over the place, right? These British military muskets were manufactured for over 100 years from 1722 to 1860 in various configurations, so they must be easily available and cheap to buy, right?

Of course an original Brown Bess is hard to find today. Time has taken its relentless toll on these pieces of history and now many are lost.

The only thing I wish to conflict with is the perceived flip mindset that "There were millions made and my changing just this one (1) won't do any real harm." I regret that I am probably swimming upstream toward this goal. I would like there to be almost as many original configuration military rifles 100 years from now as there are today, preserved for future generations.

In the picture someone else posted of a butchered Mosin they showed the rifle, it was a Finnish rifle. These are far less common, more reliable, and more valuable. Now that is one less ruined forever. While you may understand what you are doing and minimizing the damage others not so educated may be encouraged to find themselves "an old mosin" and chop it up, only they might unwittingly ruin a very uncommon rifle.

I again will defend your right to do what you want with your property. You earned the money that will buy it and all the parts that will go onto it. I simply urge restraint in acting on this course of action, not just for Mosins but for the Enfields, K98 Mausers, Springfield 1903's, Arisakas, and all the other weapons of war that men of courage used in the great struggle of nations.

Kind Regards,

Doug

 

[U.S. Patriot]

Did you buy a bent bolt for yours? If so, how much did it run you? The reason I ask is this. I'm looking at a Mosin Carbine, and I may want to mount a scope. I do not want a scout scope. Also, what brand of mount did you go with? I have limited experience with Mosin's. So any advice would be much appreciated.

 

[Delmar]

Awesome, thanks for the info. Can you give me a brief synopsis on how you free floated your barrel? I am interested in doing that, but not really sure how to on the Mosins.

Edit: I would love to swing by Midwest for a Mosin that cheap, however its about 5 hours away. Anybody know where I can get one of these Russian bad boys for around 80-90 dollars in southern Indiana?

There are two ways to accurize a Mosin barrel. One is to air float it. The other is to bed it down with card stock, or a sheet of cork. From what I have read, some barrels will respond better to one method than the other, depending on the harmonics (which I don't know a lot about) of that particular barrel. If one method does not have the desired effect, the other should. My thinking is to try bedding the barrel down first, since this does not involve removing any material from the stock.

 

[ShooterLee]

@U.S. Patriot

I plan to bend the bolt myself, or rather, remove the bolt and weld on a new one. I know buymilsurp.com has pre bent bolts.

As far as scope mounts, I'm going to probably purchase the fine scope mount (and pillars) from rocksolidind.com

Good luck!

@Delmar

I saw the corking method on another forum. It looks promising, I'll probably try the corking the old stock, and floating the barrel in the new one.

 

[ShooterLee]

As for Libertarian's concern, I hope to own several Mosins, hopefully some worth a little more than the common 91/30, and I will only "butcher" one, I promise

 

[N_K_1984]

Did you buy a bent bolt for yours? If so, how much did it run you? The reason I ask is this. I'm looking at a Mosin Carbine, and I may want to mount a scope. I do not want a scout scope. Also, what brand of mount did you go with? I have limited experience with Mosin's. So any advice would be much appreciated.

I'm running a RockSolidInd.com bolt body. I'm VERY stisfied with it. I love it. Mosin Nagant <-- link to Rock Solid's mosin gear... well worth the money. plus it preserves the original bolt body...

 

[Boiled Owl]

To All,

Consider this: I will pay $10 to anyone who, after reading this, can go out and purchase an original Brown Bess. There were millions of them made, so they must be all over the place, right? These British military muskets were manufactured for over 100 years from 1722 to 1860 in various configurations, so they must be easily available and cheap to buy, right?

Remember this: Many need to be butchered so an original one will be rare.
PS: Keeping my Mosins original.

 

[I Like Firearms]

http://therealgunguys.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/mosin_pistol.jpeg

 

[Don]

http://therealgunguys.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/mosin_pistol.jpeg

That's called a Oberz.

 

[H&HMarine]

Remember this: Many need to be butchered so an original one will be rare.
I 2nd that