Libs mad. Biden isn't extending student loan forbearance, nothing happening with loan forgiveness.

[Alpo]

One of the items I think ought to be revisited is the lender protection from bankruptcy. No lender should be protected from the risk of default. The moral hazard is too high for unethical lending.

We've seen what easy money did to the savings & loan association and mortgage lending businesses and the subsequent bailout of financial institutions for their poor lending decisions. Yet here we have young adults strapped to debt by the same institutions that brought on other credit crises and tell the kids: well, suck it up.

There ought to be a way out for those who will never manage to pay down these loans with their education. Bankruptcy is the typical method for doing so. Their credit records are impacted for a number of years, but it does give them a chance to clean the slate and learn from the experience.

 

[breakingcontact]

There is a growing wave on the left and center left that is intent on not paying back their student loans.

That is going to continue to grow.

Why should we be surprised though?

 

[MCgrease08]

Borrowed Future Documentary: Uncovering the Student Loan Crisis in America

The Borrowed Future Documentary uncovers the dark side of the student loan industry and exposes how the system is built to work against consumers.

www.ramseysolutions.com

 

[buckwacker]

Let them go even with a spotty degree. Youngest wanted to get a specific degree. Started out that way and then a counselor explained how there was no money in it until you got a doctorate.

There are still good and honest people out there... you just have to look for them.

I see you're a high roller.

 

[HoughMade]

You can shove a lot of purchases off onto others through bankruptcy. You can even keep some of the stuff you bought.

Point being, make student loans dischargeable through bankruptcy, and you'll see the current scam system of easy five or six figure loans to dumb 18 year olds for degrees that are barely worth the paper they are written on come to a screeching halt.

That would just be another federally funded form of "loan forgiveness" in most cases.

Most student loans are "federally insured", about 92%. This means that the lender gets paid its money by the federal government and if the debt is discharged in bankruptcy, the federal government...the federal taxpayer is the loser.

I had student loans for law school, debt free after undergrad. I feel like a chump for paying them (not really- it felt good to pay them off). College is way too expensive and easy money is a big part of that. Another part is colleges marketing to the vanity and selfishness of students. Have you seen some of these facilities?

It would great if loans were harder to get and college was less expensive...but I don't see the political will. I see people from lower economic strata being sold the story that college will somehow automatically mean they won't be poor again when they are the least likely to be able to handle debt responsibly and would likely benefit more from a trades education. Sure, college available to all if it is the right path, but not for everyone who wants to. Better decisions need to be made about whether that is the right option or whether some other post high-school training or education would be better. However, I'll just say it- good decisions about life are not exemplified in many to most people of lower economic strata.

Ironically, the middle class seems to be starting to get the message that trades are a viable option. I have 4 kids. One is a debt free college graduate with a great job in IT. The second is a debt free (and will remain so) soon-to-be college graduate who has several options and will do fine. The third is headed to college next fall..at the place with the over-the-top facilities, and will, I have no doubt, graduate debt free. The fourth is likely headed towards the trades and feels no shame about it, as he shouldn't, and his Dad with a graduate degree and college educated Mom and siblings think that he will do great. If significant enough numbers of people make that choice, that will effect college.

Now, there are options to get a college education less expensively. Community college, work your way through, military, income share agreements (big at Purdue) and other creative means, but all of these are relatively high effort as compared to just signing you name on the "financial aid" form they send and getting a loan that seems like play money for a few years.

 

[rhamersley]

While I agree with most of this, I can't agree with it all.

Both my kids went thru college. I told them I wanted it and I would cover any costs associated with it. Their job was to go to school.

The silly filler classes are mostly useless, but I think of it a different way. These kids are coming out of high school. They are possibly on their own for the first time. They do not make the wisest of choices. Maybe they need a little break from the tough classes. Maybe underwater basket weaving is important to someone's chosen career. Most likely it was set up as an easy A. Trig is tough, but they don't get burned out and quit because they get a break, which as children is important.

My kids would complain about the filler classes more often than not. My youngest wanted to take the core classes and be done. She graduated high school in 3 years with a 4.0 and got her bachelor's degree in college in 3 years as well. She hated the fillers and called them a waste of time and money. She was one of very few college aged kids who saw it that way.

How many college grads are actually in the field they planned to be at the start? Very few. I know that when I was 18 I had different plans for what I would be doing the rest of my life.

I tell every student I meet that it isn't as much about what you learn as it is that you are learning to learn.

With that being said, both my kids got scholarships, grants and any other gifts that they could. I covered the rest. No way was I going to push them into college debt. They saw friends drop out who are still paying back loans that literally were never used.

My college experience was somewhat different at Rose-Hulman...aside from nine humanities classes we had to take, there were no "filler" classes. All of our classes went towards an engineering, science or computer degree. We also had a book for us from our counselor that detailed all four years of classes that we needed to take to graduate with our chosen degree in FOUR years. There were electives, but most of what was offered were things like IC engines, HVAC design, etc. (I'm mechanical...don't have knowledge of other disciplines' electives). So, in terms of bang for the buck, Rose did pretty good at eliminating the fluff.

Have no idea how it is nowadays since I'm 30+ years out and it's now coed, but still glad that's where I ended up.

 

[actaeon277]

Here's an idea.

Tell the colleges they're going to absorb the cost of the "forgiveness".
Bet the colleges change their mind quick.
They only support "forgiveness" because it's more "free" money for them.

 

[Mark-DuCo]

If you can't afford college, don't go. I attended Ivy Tech and USI, and after 4 years only had about $20,000 in debt which I paid off in 3 years. It was not easy or fun, but it was worth it. I worked jobs in high school so I had enough to cover my first year with cash. After that, I would schedule my classes so I had a t least 2 free days a week plus Saturdays to work to pay for things.

My part time job during college turned into a full time Production Manager postition with my degree in Industrial Supervision. the filler classes at USI were rediculous. Who seriously needs to take art history? What good did writing a 5 page paper over some BS painting by a crappy artist do for me?

 

[Route 45]

Not quite... There is a difference between a land mortgage and a land loan.

Suburban cowboy, indeed.

I'll have you know that I have a whole .48 acre.

 

[patience0830]

My college experience was somewhat different at Rose-Hulman...aside from nine humanities classes we had to take, there were no "filler" classes. All of our classes went towards an engineering, science or computer degree. We also had a book for us from our counselor that detailed all four years of classes that we needed to take to graduate with our chosen degree in FOUR years. There were electives, but most of what was offered were things like IC engines, HVAC design, etc. (I'm mechanical...don't have knowledge of other disciplines' electives). So, in terms of bang for the buck, Rose did pretty good at eliminating the fluff.

Have no idea how it is nowadays since I'm 30+ years out and it's now coed, but still glad that's where I ended up.

My eldest went to Rose. Purdue would have given him the same degree for 1/4th of the debt he paid off. But he has paid it off.

 

[Ingomike]

Just curious, because I'm shopping for a house and some land now, what is a "land mortgage"? I''ve heard of it, but I'm not exactly sure what it is.

A loan secured by your land.

It is typically called a land contract here. It involves the owner selling the land to the buyer based on a contract for the buyer to pay later. The buyer could make payments, could make a down payment, and typically the balance comes due at a point specified in the contract. Properly done the contract is recorded against the deed at the county, though the deed stays in the sellers name until the contract is successfully completed.

The most common way it works is a buyer (usually a buyer that cannot get financing because of credit or limited down payment) makes a down payment, then makes payments for five years, then the buyer can refinance out of the contract as soon as they can.

The risk is the property deed remains in the sellers name until the contract is paid off…

 

[dudley0]

I see you're a high roller.

Well depending on who you talk to I guess.

We had decided to pay the kids way thru college a long time back. Had a fund set up of sorts but the housing crash kind of put a damper on that.

The best thing was my spouse put her nose to the grindstone looking for grants and scholarships. Hell my first kids first year of college was completely paid for by others. Also helped that we found a house to purchase that was decent and saved room and board fees after they each had one year in the dorms.

I but I like the high roller idea... stick with me, I'll make you a hundred-dollaraire in no time.

 

[dudley0]

It is typically called a land contract here. It involves the owner selling the land to the buyer based on a contract for the buyer to pay later. The buyer could make payments, could make a down payment, and typically the balance comes due at a point specified in the contract. Properly done the contract is recorded against the deed at the county, though the deed stays in the sellers name until the contract is successfully completed.

The most common way it works is a buyer (usually a buyer that cannot get financing because of credit or limited down payment) makes a down payment, then makes payments for five years, then the buyer can refinance out of the contract as soon as they can.

The risk is the property deed remains in the sellers name until the contract is paid off…

Only contract that finished for me was like that, but they stretched it out for 13 years. I had set it up where they paid rent and anything over went towards the purchase. Poor choices and moochy kids made it last longer than needed but it worked out in the end.

Had one where I played the bank. I charged 10% interest on a 12 year note. Six years in and he decided he didn't want it any longer. Lost it all. That's why everything stays in my name. In about two weeks time I had the empty side rented out (duplex) and another person buying it on contract.

Still have one where I play bank. I was hoping that the 10% would be too much of a burn, but she won't go get it refinanced. Her call. I am making money, but she is content with the payment.

 

[Ingomike]

Only contract that finished for me was like that, but they stretched it out for 13 years. I had set it up where they paid rent and anything over went towards the purchase. Poor choices and moochy kids made it last longer than needed but it worked out in the end.

You sound very close to a rent to buy. Was the contract recorded?

 

[dudley0]

The husband worked with me at the time and his wife worked at the county building. They didn't want it recorded for whatever reason.

I have a 2 page addendum for my lease that took care of it. I didn't charge interest or penalties. Supposed to be a three year contract, but things kept happening and I would just let it extend.

 

[buckwacker]

Well depending on who you talk to I guess.

We had decided to pay the kids way thru college a long time back. Had a fund set up of sorts but the housing crash kind of put a damper on that.

The best thing was my spouse put her nose to the grindstone looking for grants and scholarships. Hell my first kids first year of college was completely paid for by others. Also helped that we found a house to purchase that was decent and saved room and board fees after they each had one year in the dorms.

I but I like the high roller idea... stick with me, I'll make you a hundred-dollaraire in no time.

I think my joke fell flat. I was referring to making 5 or 6 figure bet (tuition) on your kids picking a major that would give them a decent income rather one of the foofoo ones that doesn't.

 

[Ingomike]

The husband worked with me at the time and his wife worked at the county building. They didn't want it recorded for whatever reason.

I have a 2 page addendum for my lease that took care of it. I didn't charge interest or penalties. Supposed to be a three year contract, but things kept happening and I would just let it extend.

I would call that rent to buy. Very ignorant of them not to record. Wonder what they were hiding from? Without the recorded docs you can easily sell it out from under them, leaving them with a tough after the fact fight to win.

 

[dudley0]

I would call that rent to buy. Very ignorant of them not to record. Wonder what they were hiding from? Without the recorded docs you can easily sell it out from under them, leaving them with a tough after the fact fight to win.

Maybe they just trusted me. Maybe they didn't want it being known at county. Didn't bother me at all. Like I said, I could have got them after the first three years but why would I?

A small income stream is still income. The only problem was when they decided to buy. I had already sold a house that year (mentioned above for the college kids). That showed me making money on sales instead of just rentals. I ended up having to start paying quarterly taxes which sucked for the next couple years.

 

[Ingomike]

Maybe they just trusted me. Maybe they didn't want it being known at county. Didn't bother me at all. Like I said, I could have got them after the first three years but why would I?

A small income stream is still income. The only problem was when they decided to buy. I had already sold a house that year (mentioned above for the college kids). That showed me making money on sales instead of just rentals. I ended up having to start paying quarterly taxes which sucked for the next couple years.

I would do all day what you did and never what they did. LOL

 

[churchmouse]

Maybe they just trusted me. Maybe they didn't want it being known at county. Didn't bother me at all. Like I said, I could have got them after the first three years but why would I?

A small income stream is still income. The only problem was when they decided to buy. I had already sold a house that year (mentioned above for the college kids). That showed me making money on sales instead of just rentals. I ended up having to start paying quarterly taxes which sucked for the next couple years.

When we had rentals in the mid 80's we built them up to be pretty nice units. We had a package we put into each one as we were basically buying 4 walls and a roof on a slab. Lived into death houses in the same area so they were pretty much cookie cutters. All mid to late 50's National homes.
Once done they were pretty much turnkey homes ready to live in for a good while. At one point we started to sell them on contract to the renters if they proved to be solid folks. A down payment like a buy here/pay here car lot and a decent monthly provided a solid revenue stream that was not bad after we figured everything out as to taxes etc. That took all the upkeep etc off me.
We only had 3 that came back to us and required a minimum to turn around and rent again. Those folks lost all investment in the property.
When the suits stole all the money and the housing bubble popped, we were down to 5 units renting and a few still on contract. We put the last 5 up for sale and all but 1 family opted to move, and the rest sold on contract. We had a 1 year minimum on the contract and we wanted it financed and gone but a few asked for more time which was fine. 2 of them actually paid them off under the contract. That was a most interesting time in our lives dealing with the serious changes we saw coming in society and all about me and **** you crowd coming up. Dome really interesting stories.