Light Trigger (Y/N)

[iChokePeople]

Well I wouldn't be worried about shooting someone, I'd be worried about negligent discharges.

CoughJeremyCoughCough

 

[rhino]

Any modifcations you make a gun used for potential self-defense should be something that you can explain in case in comes into question. You need to be able to effectively articulate why you chose to modify the trigger. In my opinion, if something helps me to put bullets only where I want them and only when I need them there, it's a good thing. If it compromises that, it's not a good thing.

 

[dusterboy49]

I'll throw out an opinion leaning in the other direction.

Is it really any different if you happen to grab your competition gun to defend your family vs. a bone-stock factory handgun? If it is a "good shoot" within the eyes of the law, then the tool you used isn't relevant. There have been plenty of news stories where victims of a home invasion have defended themselves with their "sporting" gun (trap gun, hunting rifle, etc...).

Has anyone ever been prosecuted in Indiana for a too-light trigger? I mean on an otherwise perfectly reasonable self-defense shooting?

I believe that you would have to worry more about a civil suit than criminal prosecution if your trigger is too light

 

[eldirector]

I believe that you would have to worry more about a civil suit than criminal prosecution if your trigger is too light

Are you not protected from any form of "legal jeopardy" if the shooting was ruled self defense?

 

[KG1]

Any modifcations you make a gun used for potential self-defense should be something that you can explain in case in comes into question. You need to be able to effectively articulate why you chose to modify the trigger. In my opinion, if something helps me to put bullets only where I want them and only when I need them there, it's a good thing. If it compromises that, it's not a good thing.

If someone should choose to modify their own trigger I would agree with your assessment.

I was only stating what my personal preference was. I'm gonna choose a defensive firearm that I can shoot well with a stock trigger without having to modify it.

 

[Bigshep]

Prosecutors and lawyers can try to run with whatever they want to get a conviction on people. Doesn't mean that it would be a valid point that they should be using, but they can always try to run with the whole "You put a lighter trigger in your gun just so you can shoot people easier and faster. You did this with the intent to kill." I think a lot of people say to not use a lighter trigger on your carry gun as a just in case you get one of the aforementioned people in the courtroom against you.

 

[Fixer]

Just polishing the trigger to make it smoother and in that process a bit lighter is going to be hard to prove in any court. Normal wear will smooth out the contact parts and lighten the trigger over time.
Just my

 

[357 Terms]

I love when people make up their own laws. Modifying your trigger will not get you in hot water in court if you are ever in a self defense shooting. I've never seen any court case documents where a light trigger made someone go to prison.

And you probably never will.

There is sooo much wild speculation when it comes to what can happen in the aftermath of a SD shooting, most of it is just that...speculation, not based on any case law or fact.

 

[JettaKnight]

Well, around here, if your doors kicked in and there is a rough looking man in dark clothes, knife in hand, crack pipe in pocket, dead on the floor from a GSW, the prosecutor isn't going to bother to open the file folder...

Moot point.

 

[88GT]

I love when people make up their own laws. Modifying your trigger will not get you in hot water in court if you are ever in a self defense shooting.

Shouldn't get you into additional trouble. Not "will not." You have no business making such a guarantee. People have been charged for more on less.

I've never seen any court case documents where a light trigger made someone go to prison.

No, it's usually the actual shooting that results in prison time. But idiots sit on juries too.

Additionally, how would they know you modified your trigger unless you told them? Maybe that light trigger came from the factory that way?

You don't think they test fire the gun to get a ballistics match? You don't think someone would recognize a lighter trigger? You don't think they take all the vitals on a firearm involved in a shooting?

You could use the same argument about changing your sights for a better sight picture and changing grips for a better hold on the gun. But the thing is, NO ONE in Indiana has ever been sent to jail for doing any (legal) modifications to their gun in a justified self defense shooting. Let's kill this rumor. It's just as silly as the lifetime LTCH going away.

But none of those modifications make it easier or simpler to discharge the firearm. None of them contribute to the "trigger happy" label a prosecutor would be wont to apply.

Prior to June 1969, nobody had stepped on the moon before either. Would you have argued that because nobody had ever been to the moon previously that it wasn't ever going to happen. You are using flawed logic. And while it it important to mention that, to date, this kind of thing has not been an issue in a self-defense shooting, one must also weigh the risks of becoming the test case. All it takes is one nasty prosecutor intent on crucifying someone.

The point is that one has to weigh the likelihood of it happening (or not) with the consequences if it does.

Think of it this way. The actual risk of a house fire is pretty low. But the consequences if you have one are astronomical, so most people purchase insurance to cover their losses in case the extremely rare event happens. If people made their decision based on on the risk of incidence alone, nobody but the most cautious/risk adverse would carry insurance (ignoring for the sake of argument the lender requirement to do so). That's what you're telling people to do: not buy insurance.

Not modding an EDC is that insurance.

 

[Burnsy]

Jurys are "supposed" to be unbiased. They are "supposed" to be a clean slate which is used to judge a person based on facts and actions alone. Personally, I don't think that happens all that often. I feel that the odds are fairly good that one or two of them might be and anti gun nut that slipped through the system and a few might be pro 2A as well.

That said, if you modify a SD gun the prosecutor is going to jump all over it and bring the fact up. Even if it really made no difference all he has to do is convince the majority of the jury that you are clearly a gun toting maniac who modified his hi cap murder device to kill "better". As long as the jury believes that whether it's true or not has no consequence.

For that reason my EDC will remain stock. I am sure there are many cases where a "light" trigger was used in SD and the user had no problems, but I choose to stack as many odds in my favor as possible.

When it comes down to me dying or living, I am betting and I am not going to cool or calm enough (I am not a trained killer) that a light or stock trigger is going to make much of a difference.

 

[357 Terms]

The actual risk of a house fire is pretty low. But the consequences if you have one are astronomical, so most people purchase insurance to cover their losses in case the extremely rare event happens.

Not modding an EDC is that insurance

House fires have happened, quite frequently.... poor analogy.

Please cite ONE instance in which someone in a self defense shooting has had an issue with a defensive handgun with a trigger job.

I have had many discussions with experts who can't.

 

[esrice]

Please cite ONE instance in which someone in a self defense shooting has had an issue with a defensive handgun with a trigger job.

Massad Ayoob has often written about his experiences as an expert witness when such a thing occurs.

Here's a link where Mr. Ayoob was being interviewed. He gets to the "light trigger" issue toward the end of the interview.

The Massad Ayoob Chronicles, Part V | The Truth About GunsThe Truth About Guns

So what I tell folks is, nothing lighter than “factory spec” in the trigger. Certainly make your trigger smooth, I’ve never seen anyone accused of having too-smooth a trigger pull, in 31 years as an expert witness, and 39 years of teaching this stuff, and 40 years of writing about it. But what I have seen again and again, is that the trigger is too light, and therefore reckless and negligent, and guilt-producing, and culpability-producing.

As for me, I don't have any issue with performance enhancing mods that increase one's effectiveness. But, like anything else, it needs to be balanced with safety risks and the legal risks involved in our current society.

 

[jeremy]

This thread makes me want to mod a pistol to a 2 pound trigger...

 

[Burnsy]

Competition Gun Trigger Question - Glock Talk

Not a court case cite as you requested but as Massad has been an expert witness in who knows how many SD cases and knows a hell of a lot more than me regarding SD case law, I choose to heed his advice.

 

[JettaKnight]

• Do you carry/own a Glock? Well, then you're a wanabee cop / viligante looking for a fight.
• 1911? Well, in that case you carrying a military gun.
• Hollow points? Man killers
• FMJ? Armor piercing
• Revolver? Dirty Harry
• Open Carry? Show off looking for a fight
• Concealed Carry? Sneaky killer
• .45? Pure psychopath
• Hi Point? Mall Ninja
• AR or AK? Do I even have to say anything...
• "High Capacity" Magazine?
• Why do you even have a gun? Obviously you're looking to kill someone. Don't you know guns are dangerous? Obviously you're mentally ill and need to be prosecuted.
• Are you white/hispanic?

The own way to absolutely avoid prosecution after a shooting is to not shoot.


Now, let's carry on with paranoia about trials...

 

[JettaKnight]

Competition Gun Trigger Question - Glock Talk

Not a court case cite as you requested but as Massad has been an expert witness in who knows how many SD cases and knows a hell of a lot more than me regarding SD case law, I choose to heed his advice.

Ayoob also been making these claims for years, just look at the discussion here about his articles.

Personally, I want to know what the percentage of SD shootings that result in prosecution.

There are so many factors in an SD shooting that the equipment on your pistol would be the last thing I would think that would be considered. Look at the case you hear about going to trial (or considered for trial) - there often murky cases about a home owner going an retrieving a gun an shooting the attacker in the back or grabbing a gun a lurking around an unoccupied home because they saw something suspicious.

A clean shoot is a clean shoot.

 

[357 Terms]

While I respect Mr. Ayoob I can't see his logic in this ( and reloads)

He cites the case of Luis Alvarez as a warning, and that is pretty much his only example for not having a trigger mod.

Here is a post I placed on another forum regarding the Alvarez case;

By most accounts Luis Alvarez was not a good cop.
Alvarez seemed to think that dept. policy did not apply to him, he had violated it long before and right up to the shooting.

The DA in the Alvarez case tried to show that he was reckless in the way he handled his service revolver. Initial witness accounts said he had his gun cocked in single action, like a "cowboy", that! was the basis for the prosecutions claim that he shot the kid accidentally.

There must have been something to it, the Miami police converted all their service revolvers to double action only before this case even went to trial. Many on the police force refered to their converted revolvers as being "Alvarezed", not a big show of respect/concern for a beleaugered colleague is it?
Had Alvarez followed procedure he would not have been at the arcade where the shooting occured. He also didn't follow procedure by not telling dispatch his location (apparently he liked to roust places up and didn't want to explain why he was there).

The fact that he had modified his gun is another example of him violating procedure.

Alvarez was charged in that case because of his conduct a a police officer, very poor. Had he followed procedure that shooting would never have happened.

Portraying Luis Alvarez as a poor cop who was the victim of a hell bent district Attorney is a stretch, a BIG one, one that I can't jump on board with.


Again, There are NO examples of anyone EVER having an issue in a court of law, who was involved in a SD shooting that had modified their trigger.

 

[Burnsy]

Eh the way view it is there is a pretty low chance I am going to involved in a long distance shoot out with a BG. Even if I was I dunno if a lighter trigger would make much of a difference with ones body pumped full of adrenalin and fighting for your life.

I have never been in a SD event but if I were I would bet my hands are gonna be a good bit more shaky than they are right now. Not to say that I don't feel that I could defend myself but I don't think I am going to be shooting at things 100ft away that would denote the need for it.

A close encounter is a more likely occurrence and once again in that case I don't really need any added benefit of a lighter trigger. So why even run the risk of me being the first person ever to be put away due to a "hair trigger". Jurys can decide whatever they want and people are crazy. If there truly are no existing cases there is always a first for everything and I just don't feel that a lighter trigger is going to make a difference in my dying or living in a SD encounter.

I am not saying don't do it. For all I care you can mod your gun until the wind will drop the hammer/pin and that is your right. I just chose not to as what massad is saying seems like sound advice and I don't really see a need.

 

[357 Terms]

That said, if you modify a SD gun the prosecutor is going to jump all over it and bring the fact up.

Burnsy;

Please cite a case, ONE case in which that has happened.