Loading your defensive ammo pros and cons

[yosemitesam]

Google Zach Rogers 21st amendment liquor Sep 30 2012 if need be I guess I can post a picture of my drivers license too

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Back on topic of "rolling your own" defensive loads.

Odds are you don't have the knowledge, testing facilities, and resources that a major manufacturer has. Improving on a modern hollowpoint is a lot more difficult than just "make it go faster", which can actually be counter productive. The bullet is designed to open at a certain velocity, and pushing it outside of that velocity on either the upper or lower end will reduce performance.

Faster does not always equal better. The "petals" of a hollowpoint are like little air brakes. Deploy them too soon and too much and you'll reduce your penetration. Push the bullet too far beyond its tolerances and it will fragment easier, resulting in wider but shallower wounds. You see this more in rifle bullets, such as the .223 where lightweight bullets have wildly different results based on tiny factors of yaw, angle of impact, etc. Slower, of course, also does not always equal better, resulting in failure to expand and over penetration, or the worst of both worlds, failure to expand AND failure to penetrate.

The engineers who matched a given projectile with a given load know that, and they know the range its designed to work in. Its easy to get caught up in the ME, FPS, etc. because its sooo much easier to measure. There are just so many variables in how effective a given cartridge will be, and we all want a simpler answer. If there was one, I'd freaking love to know it, because sometimes it seems like random dumb luck plays a huge factor in what's fatal, what's incapacitating, and what's an inconvenience when it comes to most calibers. Anyway, just remember none of that stops an attacker. Getting a foreign object into something vital with enough mass and energy to disrupt that something vital does.

 

[nakinate]

Google Zach Rogers 21st amendment liquor Sep 30 2012 if need be I guess I can post a picture of my drivers license too

It's fine . Just stick around for a while. If you do, you'll see all sorts of trolls come and go. Then the second guessing you're getting right now will make sense .

 

[nakinate]

Store employee shoots and kills robbery suspect - 13 WTHR Indianapolis

 

[yosemitesam]

Yep that's me and the shooting I was talking about

 

[VERT]

Yep that's me and the shooting I was talking about

Welcome. Look forward to your contributions. I applaud you for your responsibility for not posting about the incident immediately.

This thread is probably more appropriate to the carry and self defense forum.

 

[thumperdogg]

O I think you mean the DP Robinson is reasonable. That maybe given that quote. I thought maybe you meant me for carrying 2 44s I get it now

Purely about her being reasonable lol. Rock them 44's all you want, nice choice!!! Sorry you have had to go through the stuff you have, but glad you were armed! You likely saved the lives of your co-workers as well as your own! Thanks for your service in all aspects! The quote was pulled directly from an article on your incident.

 

[yosemitesam]

My intent was just maybe a word of caution as I thought would be a general topic. As you know I am new and wasn't looking to cause problems or attract attention, just to maybe help others make an informed decision

 

[cedartop]

Yep that's me and the shooting I was talking about

Welcome, and thanks for being one of the good guys.

 

[Twangbanger]

If you don't mind me asking an out-of-left-field question...what has been the lasting effect on your hearing from capping off that many rounds indoors?

 

[SERparacord]

I can't help, I only you offensive ammo.

 

[yosemitesam]

Actually I didn't even notice the noise. My ears weren't ringing or anything after. But the girl I was working with she had a hard time with that. My first shot was right next to her ear.

 

[cedartop]

As with loading your own match, plinking, and hunting loads loading your own defensive ammo will ensure that your rounds are consistent, have enough velocity, and cycle well in your firearm. However it can make things difficult for you in the event that you shoot someone with them. In my experience in defensive shootings the detective let me speak for 30 minuets about. "What happened" and then asked almost 3 hours about the ammo and handgun I was using. A glock 29 that was factory by slide and frame only combined with hand loaded critical defense bullets I pulled from factory 40S&W and seated into a hot 10 mm case. Not only that the shoot went bad. It took 11 hits to bring down my attacker. Scoring 3 head shots off the bat amounted to little when later I found out the heroin in his system was enought to OD 6 adults. So I began to attack the spine and landed 8 more upper torso hits that ended the fight in my favor. After I was walked out by IMPD and taken to the interview room I found out my attacker was also an African American (I'm white) In a post Trevon Martin world I was quickly seeing my case go down hill. It took 3 long weeks for the deputy prosecutor to decide I did nothing wrong and was free of any charges. After personally talking to Massad Ayoob about the case I found out I did a lot of little things that added up to what could have been a nightmare for me in a criminal trial. I would suggest to you that if there is a defensive load you like custom to your gun have a licensed manufacture make it for you. Should you need it the load data can be recreated for testing. The ones you make won't be admissible in court at all. Also usually a jury thinks little about ammo that was purchased from a shop and thinks more about the evil demons you personally loaded for bear in your home. Just thought I would share. Stay alert, stay armed, stay alive my friends.

I never learned how to multi quote so,

What could the detective have asked for 3 hours about your ammo and handgun? Were they just repeating the same questions over and over?

We always hear and teach to do exactly as you did and shoot them to the ground, but it is still amazing to me that someone took 3 hot 10mm rounds to the face. It also goes to prove the point that handguns are poor stoppers and there is not a whole lot of difference in calibers. With that being learned do you still feel any need to handload your defensive ammo?

 

[Dirtebiker]

Yeah 10mm has a lot of issues. I've gotten away from it as far as defensive purposes. But I've also gone to revolvers as again piece of mind comes to play knowing they won't jam. Also I get a lot of true power from 44mag. I take my carry gun hunting, to IDPA/USPSA matches, and to classes. This round does it all for me. And every year I hit a deer and it drops right there I have affirmation that should lighting strike twice I'm going to be ok. Please do post a picture of your WC1911 I loves those guns. Such works of art they are.

If you really believe "revolvers ...won't jam", you're setting yourself up for a big surprise!

 

[bwframe]

 

[ScouT6a]

Proves once again that if it's a good shooting, doesn't make a difference if you are using hand loads or factory ammo.
When I was involved in a shooting, I didn't have a current LTCH for the Colt 1911 that I had. Aside from that, everything else put me on the right side of the law that night and the LTCH was a non issue.

 

[Rexmage]

The only thing I reload myself is my shotgun shells. I suppose if someone give me problems when I have it nearby I'll have some questions to answer.

 

[LarryC]

Back on topic of "rolling your own" defensive loads.

Odds are you don't have the knowledge, testing facilities, and resources that a major manufacturer has. Improving on a modern hollowpoint is a lot more difficult than just "make it go faster", which can actually be counter productive. The bullet is designed to open at a certain velocity, and pushing it outside of that velocity on either the upper or lower end will reduce performance.


Faster does not always equal better. The "petals" of a hollowpoint are like little air brakes. Deploy them too soon and too much and you'll reduce your penetration. Push the bullet too far beyond its tolerances and it will fragment easier, resulting in wider but shallower wounds. You see this more in rifle bullets, such as the .223 where lightweight bullets have wildly different results based on tiny factors of yaw, angle of impact, etc. Slower, of course, also does not always equal better, resulting in failure to expand and over penetration, or the worst of both worlds, failure to expand AND failure to penetrate.

The engineers who matched a given projectile with a given load know that, and they know the range its designed to work in. Its easy to get caught up in the ME, FPS, etc. because its sooo much easier to measure. There are just so many variables in how effective a given cartridge will be, and we all want a simpler answer. If there was one, I'd freaking love to know it, because sometimes it seems like random dumb luck plays a huge factor in what's fatal, what's incapacitating, and what's an inconvenience when it comes to most calibers. Anyway, just remember none of that stops an attacker. Getting a foreign object into something vital with enough mass and energy to disrupt that something vital does.

Having reloaded and been shooting for many years (over 60) I totally agree with your appraisal. I have shot many Factory self defense rounds through my handguns and have never had a "failure" of any kind. Although I am totally confident that any reloads I would carefully load for self defense would function (feed and fire) perfectly, I certainly don't have the test facilities to verify that they would penetrate, expand, not pre-fragment or over penetrate walls etc.

I will stick with purchasing Factory loads for self defense. I do shoot enough of each box I purchase to insure they function properly and are accurate within reason in my firearm -(45 ACP) then carry them confidently. When the OAL cartridge length diminishes visually (from chambering or shooting while they rest in the Mag.) I either fire them at targets (or if significant set-back dis-assemble the cartridges). I seriously doubt the prosecution would make a case based on reloaded ammo being more deadly, it certainly can't hurt having factory ammunition that is advertised for that purpose.

 

[MadMan66]

Google Zach Rogers 21st amendment liquor Sep 30 2012 if need be I guess I can post a picture of my drivers license too

Glad to see you've found a new job

I thought that picture on the linked news article looked familiar.

 

[Hookeye]

Drop deer in their tracks every time?
Ohhh-kay.

I've hit 'em with more power than that and had 'em go a ways.
I rarely go for the head or spine, instead prefer shoulder breaking chest shots.

Oh well, glad the badguy got what he deserved (in ref to the liquor store shooting).

I carry some rigs with factory ammo, some with handloads. Dead is dead..........."more dead" seems rather silly.
I refuse to let some liberal nonsense dictate what I will do, and if it sucks down the road.............oh well.

To me (possibly argued in this ammo shortage and higher expense time period) that ammo is just ammo.

Now if your gun has skulls on the grips..............