lots of police called on me

[T-rav]

mk2ja that video is a VERY good watch I watched it a few months ago.

It has alot of info, there are a few other ones by the ACLU that are actually pretty impressive.

 

[Tactical Dave]

i recently had a police officer let me off with a warning because i informed him of the handgun in my glovebox. but if the gun had been on my waist, i wouldnt have said a word unless he asked. i am not advocating being rude or uncooperative, but i am not about to volunteer information freely. and never in a million years would i let a cop search my car voluntarily.

If there is a chance that the cop will see it then I think it is better safe then sorry, if he ask's for my id and it is in my walled and the gun is on my belt behined me and he see's it he MAY think I am going for it or something...... and that could get ugly.

In the golve box or under the seat or something then I don't think you need to say something unless they ask.

 

[LPMan59]

If there is a chance that the cop will see it then I think it is better safe then sorry, if he ask's for my id and it is in my walled and the gun is on my belt behined me and he see's it he MAY think I am going for it or something...... and that could get ugly.

In the golve box or under the seat or something then I don't think you need to say something unless they ask.

since i had my registration in the glovebox, i figured i had better tell him

 

[Tactical Dave]

since i had my registration in the glovebox, i figured i had better tell him

Good choice haha.

 

[E5RANGER375]

i will have everything they are required by law to get when they arive at my window, that will ONLY be cracked enough for me to hand my ID out of it and for me to hear him. period. If he ask me to exit the vehicle, i will after i lock the doors and stuff the keys in my pocket. gonnna be a rough time for them when its a one way conversation, give me a ticket, thats fine, i'll see you in court WITH my lawyer, even for speeding. even if i dodge the points and have to pay the ticket it was worth it for me. sorry i know you cops have a job to do. EVEN IF YOU ARE INNOCENT, the POLICE ARE NOT YOUR FRIEND!!! i appreciate the ones that know their job and dont break the law, but they are still police and NEVER stop being police, even off duty, they can and will arrest you. dont be fooled to think otherwise. dont incriminate yourselves, if you do then you deserve what you get

 

[mk2ja]

This was done down in Indy last summer I think? I know it was done just cant recall when. The key is for it not to be a protest just a casual walk through the streets.

That OC Walk in Indy was my first "INGO event" (Fenway asked us to keep the INGO name out of it, so we just said it was organized online if anybody asked us how we all got together). I posted this in the new event thread, but figured I'd duplicate it in this thread for the benefit of others who aren't in the other thread.

Here are a few links, just for reference, since I saw the previous events were mentioned.

The OC Educational Walk in Indianapolis - 26 Sept 2009
Organized by SavageEagle
Facebook event page (includes "Why We Walk" statement, self-imposed safety rules, and important points to ensure compliance with applicable laws)
The organizational/planning thread
Talking Points for the Walk thread

INGO Meet-n-Eat Breakfast - 2 Jan 2010
Organized by T-rav
Planning thread

INGO Meet-n-Eat Lunch - 27 Feb 2010
Organized by JohnP82
Planning thread

And.. speaking of the other thread... folks who are interested in attending the latest event in Fort Wayne should check out the planning thread here:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/general_firearms_discussion/80965-fort_wayne_oc_meet.html

 

[Kick]

Ok, I have read quite a few posts in this thread about the police approaching people and for no reason since, they have committed no crime. I know of several departemtns that actually ask thier officers to make volentary contacts with the citizens they serve. It is usually pretty short, "Hey, how are you doing, have you had any problems lately, ect. However, the department also wants these "contacts" to be documented. So, the end of the contact usually involves asking for the persons name, date of birth, and address. (Only to put on the contact card). If the person does not want to talk to the Officer, they do not have to and if they do not want to give thier information, they do not have to. However, the Officer is not violating anyone's rights by speaking to them.

I personally go out of my way to stop and talk with cab driver's and hooker's. The cab driver's really don't mind too much and the hookers get over it if I bring them coffee. I do not think they are in the process of commiting any crime, I just happen to know that they have a much better idea of who is commiting what crimes in my town.

If I were in Indiana and saw someone OCing, I would prolly first ask them if they were an INGO member and then ask them what they knew about crime in the area, hoping to build on the INGO bond.

All I am tryin to say is that everytime an officer approaches someone, they are not accusing them of commiting a crime and more importantly they are not violating anyones rights.

 

[mk2ja]

I'd highly recommend you watch that video of a lawyer and police officer giving a lecture on the theme "Don't Talk to the Police". First the lawyer and then the cop both very clearly explain that even if you are innocent, whatever you say can be used against you - and even worse, it is legally impossible for anything you say to be used *for* you. Sounds crazy, right? It's true. They both agreed, just don't talk to the police.

Watch the video, friend. I don't want you to ever end up in the situation where you think to yourself, "I'm innocent, I have nothing to hide, yeah, I'll answer their questions." Here it is, for your reference.

YouTube - Dont Talk to Police

mk2ja that video is a VERY good watch I watched it a few months ago.

It has alot of info, there are a few other ones by the ACLU that are actually pretty impressive.

Funny that this came up, and then just a bit later I noticed another thread about legal advice for defense attorneys who are defending clients in self-defense cases. One of the things in that thread is also, "don't talk to the police!"
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...f_defense/81346-interesting_legal_advice.html

I personally go out of my way to stop and talk with hookers.

Dude.......................................nice.

 

[Kick]

mk2ja,

Nice edit on the quote... Funny though. Hmmmm.... makes me wanna start a new thread. "Don't talk to the media!"

 

[E5RANGER375]

mk2ja,

Nice edit on the quote... Funny though. Hmmmm.... makes me wanna start a new thread. "Don't talk to the media!"

lol, dont worry i would never talk to those BAST**ds either!! they are probly worse than the police because they will just lie out their teeth for ratings or too get their democrat elected.

 

[Dek83]

LAWYER up man. Sounds like a bunch of BS. I had a similar issue with Metro on the west side by Waterfronts on Crawfordsville Rd and 465 while working security in full uniform.

 

[thompal]

I know of several departemtns that actually ask thier officers to make volentary contacts with the citizens they serve. It is usually pretty short, "Hey, how are you doing, have you had any problems lately, ect. However, the department also wants these "contacts" to be documented. So, the end of the contact usually involves asking for the persons name, date of birth, and address.

I wouldn't mind an officer making conversation if we were in a situation that it would be normal (line at the gas station, passing while walking down the street, etc). That harkens back to the "Officer Friendly" that I remember from when I was a kid. The name/address/DOB may be a bit much though, and I would definitely question the need for that.

I think that an Officer Friendly probably gets more relevant information from citizens, than would one of the black BDU wearing militarized troops such as those brought in during Clinton's Troops to Cops program. Citizens believe that Officer Friendly truly cares about their concerns and their neighborhood and isn't on some sort of power trip.

 

[j706]

i will give them my permit and maybe my DL if they ask nicely (no screw it they can go fish, im not giving my DL to them unless im driving), thats all they need. take me to jail, i dont care. I've never been in trouble one time, so they better have a good legitimate reason or they'll be payin for my next vacation. my advice is the best advice ever!!

Let me tell you why a police officer good or a bad one ask you questions. they are asking SPECIFIC questions to find probable cause that a crime has been commited, they are asking YOU questions to find a way to send your a** to jail and see if a case can be made for a prosecuter. I know plenty of cops i have worked with them, and i know that the only way your not going to jail is if they personaly dont think the prosecuter has enough evidence to pick up the case PERIOD. NOTHING IS RANDOM that they ask you!!! They are trained to look for reasons to arrest you, not reasons to let you go. So i have EVERYTHING TO HIDE, its called my right to privacy and the right not to be harrassed even by the cops. so you can sing like a bird and go to jail, but if i go to jail i will kill somebody and be there for life cause the first guy named bubba that tries to touch me will get his nose bone through the front lobe of his brain, so im not going there.

Is that what police officers do? I know a few (2 or 3)cops. The ones I know would much rather NOT take someone to jail. Something about a lot paperwork or something.

 

[j706]

A little cooperation can put you in jail. Let me tell you what happened to me when I cooperated once upon a time, about 21 years ago.

I was pulled over after leaving a bar. I hadn't been drinking, and passed the FSTs. The officer asked if I had any guns, drugs or atomic bombs in my car. Keep in mind, this was in California. I said no. He asked if I minded if he take a quick look. I had nothing to hide, so I said, "sure, go ahead." When he got to my trunk, he found my toolbox with a bunch of tools in it. I had filed one of my screwdrivers down to use as a valve cover gasket scraper. It worked really well for that. Without a single question, he arrested me for "possession of burglary tools." I was shocked and amazed. I went to jail. I sat there overnight until my dad was able to bail me out.

I showed up for my court date, intending to plead not guilty, only to find out that they withdrew the charge. I thought... Sweet. I'm done with this stupid BS. So I went back to the police station to retrieve my tools, which they had confiscated. They refused to return them to me without an order from a judge. So I went back to court, and put myself on the afternoon docket.

The judge was pissed at me for wasting his time, and told me he couldn't release my property because it wasn't seized pursuant to a search warrant. So I went back to the police station. This time they told me they wouldn't release them because they MIGHT decide to charge me some day.

So I called a lawyer friend of my dad (the guy who instructed me to plead not guilty, but couldn't make it in to court that day due to another trial he had to go to). After a whole truckload of phone calls and letters, they finally released my tools. I went to pick them up, and half of them were missing.

Fast forward 10 years. I'd moved here to Indiana, and got a job as a securities broker. The firm ran my background check, and guess what shows up? An arrest 10 years prior for "possession of burglary tools." Now... have fun getting a job as a broker with something involving the world "burglary" on your background check.

I had to fly out to California, on my own dime, to obtain paperwork showing the disposition of that case. I went to the courthouse, and they didn't have anything. They sent me to the police station. I went to the police station, and they didn't have anything, and sent me back to the courthouse, who then sent me to the SHERIFF'S station. Now... the sheriff's station was in the same building as the police station, shared the same front desk, and had the same person standing there when I got there. They told me I had to go to the OTHER sheriff's station, the main one in the county seat. By now it was the end of the day and I was going to miss my flight back in the morning because this wasn't taken care of.

Next day.

When I got to the other sheriff's station, I had to wait in line for about 3 hours while people registered their assault weapons. When I finally got up to the desk and explained what I needed, with the file number, etc., they said they didn't have anything after not even checking. So I called my lawyer right in front of the girl, and asked him to refer me to somebody good in Calif. because I was going to sue the Ventura County Sheriff's department for ruining my career by putting bogus crap on my record and then refusing to provide any documents showing it was bogus. 30 seconds later, the girl somehow miraculously produced the documents I needed. Amazing. And after all that, being a day late back to the job got me a written warning and probationary status. One more unapproved absence and I was out. There's nothing like starting a job with things like that in your personnel file.

This arrest cost me a lot of time, a lot of money, and a lot of aggravation, and almost cost me my career. I beat the charge, but I almost lost everything later on.

Long story short... don't ever answer questions, don't ever consent to searches. Even if you've got nothing to hide. You have nothing to gain by cooperating, and everything to lose. I learned this the hard way. And this is why I've got several statutes printed out, and I carry them with me. I read that statute later, that I was initially charged under, and came to find out the officer, in order to charge me with it, had to have specific knowledge of a crime that I had either committed, or was about to commit, using those specific tools. They dropped the charge because he didn't have that knowledge. This is what makes me absolutely detest when officers blather on about the law when they're wrong. In hindsight, I should have sued them into oblivion, because who knows how many other people got hosed like me, after me.

Wow that is a bummer. That sounds like that was a real mess. Wading around through government bureaucracy is never fun nor easy.

 

[Cemetery-man]

Here the LEO's are very easy to get along with concerning legal gun-related matters. It's a small, low crime community so when someone applies for their LTCH It's a good bet all the officers know about it. I had one come up to me and out of the blue started talking about guns, how he carried, holsters, bugs, etc. I enjoyed the conversation, learned a few things and I think he enjoyed it as well. One of the supervising officers offered to give handgun owners a safety course at the police range this spring While another asked me about my LCP and even ended up buying one for off-duty carry and as an on-duty BUG when he saw how easay it was to conceal. I have had several conversations with the chief about carrying and back when I was waiting for my license he even printed me off rules and a map showing me what states I can carry in.

So I guess a lot boils down to location and how knowledgable the cops in your community are concerning gun laws and their general attitude about armed citizens in general.

 

[spartan933]

Power trip maybe? Small manhood? That's uncool. At least a couple of the cops were cool and calm.

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

I have thought about calling the department myself and just asking if anything is being done to make sure this does not happen again. Of course not telling them Im from this site. Curious as to if they have a official statement yet.

There is allway's two side's to a story so I would not pass judgement just yet........ I think calling/e-mailing asking if they have an offical statement regading that incedent would not hurt though.

The only update I have about making contact with FWPD is that they put me through to Internal Affairs, no on answered the telephone there and it dumped me to the voicemail of a Lt. Hunter. He will "return my call at his earliest convenience."

 

[E5RANGER375]

The only update I have about making contact with FWPD is that they put me through to Internal Affairs, no on answered the telephone there and it dumped me to the voicemail of a Lt. Hunter. He will "return my call at his earliest convenience."

lol yeah i bet he will, he will return it just to say, "sorry this is an ongoing investigation so i have no comment" lol. pud wacker

well thanks for trying, nothing you could have done different. they know the guys lawyered up so now they will go into turtle mode to try and save whats left of their a**es. any group that investigates themselves is not an effective group. they need to have an indipendant investigation, from someone OUTSIDE of law enforcement.

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

lol yeah i bet he will, he will return it just to say, "sorry this is an ongoing investigation so i have no comment" lol. pud wacker

well thanks for trying, nothing you could have done different. they know the guys lawyered up so now they will go into turtle mode to try and save whats left of their a**es. any group that investigates themselves is not an effective group. they need to have an indipendant investigation, from someone OUTSIDE of law enforcement.

I'm not calling for or about SilentVoice's situation. I called to ask for their department policy for OC'ing in Ft Wayne. If FWPD "forces" me to physically visit, I will ask the same question in addition to asking for the "run" report on SV's case. For me, it is two separate issues because I OC most every time I go into FW.

 

[SavageEagle]

I'm not calling for or about SilentVoice's situation. I called to ask for their department policy for OC'ing in Ft Wayne. If FWPD "forces" me to physically visit, I will ask the same question in addition to asking for the "run" report on SV's case. For me, it is two separate issues because I OC most every time I go into FW.

I feel sorry for ANYONE that lives in or visits FW. That place is a cesspool of gangs, corruption, and anti-freedom.