LTCH Daycare-Child drop off/pickup

[rickrish]

I understand that I can carry in my vehicle while dropping off and picking up my children from daycare. Its also my understanding that I have to remain in the vehicle while on the property with my gun, problem is I have escort my kids inside the facility and sign them in or out. I read somewhere that I cannot leave my gun in the vehicle without me present while on school property. Can someone clarify this? Could the gun be in the vehicle if it was in a lock box? Would it have to be unloaded if I was not in the vehicle? When is it ever ok to leave your gun in the vehicle say you didn't want to carry it in the bank, does it have to be locked up in a case or can it be just put in the glove box?

 

[WC Deer Hunter]

Not sure but I'm sure someone else does. My son goes to daycare/preschool at a church so no worries. Even though they are a licensed daycare they are defined as a ministry so the "no gun school zone" does not apply. I can carry inside when I drop him off.

Edit: they are not a state licensed preschool

 

[kludge]

I understand that I can carry in my vehicle while dropping off and picking up my children from daycare.

true.

Its my understanding that I have to remain in the vehicle while on the property,

true.

problem is I have escort my kids inside the facility and sign them in or out. I read somewhere that I cannot leave my gun in the vehicle without me present while on school propery.

true, key phrase in the code is "operating" a motor vehicle.

Can someone clarify this? Could the gun be in the vehicle if it was in a lock box?

no. not at a school.

Would it have to be unloaded if I was not in the vehicle?

moot. see above.

When is it ever ok to leave you gun in the vehicle say you didn't want to carry it in the bank, does it have to be locked up in a case or can it be just put in the glove box?

the law is silent on banks and other places but it is very specific on schools and the law is written in a way so that "strict liability" applies.

 

[kludge]

Not sure but I'm sure someone else does. My son goes to daycare/preschool at a church so no worries. Even though they are a licensed preschool they are defined as a ministry so the "no gun school zone" does not apply. I can carry inside when I drop him off.

WRONG!!!

 

[Scutter01]

IC 35-47-9-2
Possession of firearms on school property, at school function, or on school bus; felony
Sec. 2. A person who possesses a firearm:
(1) in or on school property;
(2) in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function; or
(3) on a school bus;
commits a Class D felony.
As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.

IC 35-47-9-1
Exemptions from chapter
Sec. 1. This chapter does not apply to the following:
(1) A:
(A) federal;
(B) state; or
(C) local;
law enforcement officer.
(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
(A) a school; or
(B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function;
to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.
(3) A person who:
(A) may legally possess a firearm; and
(B) possesses the firearm in a motor vehicle that is being operated by the person to transport another person to or from a school or a school function.
As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.

 

[Scutter01]

Not sure but I'm sure someone else does. My son goes to daycare/preschool at a church so no worries. Even though they are a licensed preschool they are defined as a ministry so the "no gun school zone" does not apply. I can carry inside when I drop him off.

WRONG!!!

The "ministry" does not override the "licensed preschool". Quite the opposite, in fact. It's a school and it's off-limits. However, one of the exemptions appear to allow for the owner of the school to allow you to carry. I would get it in writing and have my lawyer look at it first, but that's just me.

 

[WC Deer Hunter]

WRONG!!!

Really? Please show me where you find that. If I am wrong please inform me.

 

[rickrish]

@WC Deer Hunter

Same as you this is a church ministry daycare/ preschool, so is it exempt, I can carry, I have not talked to them about it, I don't want to freak the very nice ladies in there that take care of my kids, I just prefer to leave it in my vehicle, but didn't know if I could, on the property as I thought it is considered a school.

 

[Scutter01]

Really? Please show me where you find that. If I am wrong please inform me.

I quoted the IC above. IC 35-47-9-2

 

[rickrish]

Hey guys, I'm not trying to start an argument, but you see what I'm thinking, you guys are wonderful with your knowledge, I still beleive on the error of caution a licensed daycare should be treated as a school.

 

[WC Deer Hunter]

The "ministry" does not override the "licensed preschool". Quite the opposite, in fact. It's a school and it's off-limits.

I said Licensed preschool , but I meant sate licensed daycare. They are not state licensed preschool. Sorry i'll edit original post.

 

[rickrish]

Ok, so it's a school, can I leave it in my vehicle while I take my kids inside and sign them in? I usually leave my van running and unlocked, not really worried about anybody stealing anything, all the other parents do as well.

 

[Scutter01]

I said Licensed preschool , but I meant sate licensed daycare. They are not state licensed preschool. Sorry i'll edit original post.

If the "licensed daycare" meets any of these definitions, it's a school.

IC 35-41-1-24.7
"School property" defined
Sec. 24.7. "School property" means the following:
(1) A building or other structure owned or rented by:
(A) a school corporation;
(B) an entity that is required to be licensed under IC 12-17.2 or IC 31-27;
(C) a private school that is not supported and maintained by funds realized from the imposition of a tax on property, income, or sales; or
(D) a federal, state, local, or nonprofit program or service operated to serve, assist, or otherwise benefit children who are at least three (3) years of age and not yet enrolled in kindergarten, including the following:
(i) A Head Start program under 42 U.S.C. 9831 et seq.
(ii) A special education preschool program.
(iii) A developmental child care program for preschool children.
(2) The grounds adjacent to and owned or rented in common with a building or other structure described in subdivision (1).

IC 20-18-2-16
"School corporation"
Sec. 16. (a) "School corporation", for purposes of this title (except IC 20-20-33, IC 20-26-1 through IC 20-26-5, IC 20-26-7, IC 20-30-8, and IC 20-43), means a public school corporation established by Indiana law. The term includes a:
(1) school city;
(2) school town;
(3) school township;
(4) consolidated school corporation;
(5) metropolitan school district;
(6) township school corporation;
(7) county school corporation;
(8) united school corporation; or
(9) community school corporation.
(b) "School corporation", for purposes of IC 20-26-1 through IC 20-26-5 and IC 20-26-7, has the meaning set forth in IC 20-26-2-4.
(c) "School corporation", for purposes of IC 20-20-33 and IC 20-30-8, includes a charter school (as defined in IC 20-24-1-4).
(d) "School corporation", for purposes of IC 20-43, has the meaning set forth in IC 20-43-1-23.

 

[rickrish]

I said Licensed preschool , but I meant sate licensed daycare. They are not state licensed preschool. Sorry i'll edit original post.

It is a state licensed daycare ministry attached to a church

 

[Scutter01]

Ok, so it's a school, can I leave it in my vehicle while I take my kids inside and sign them in? I usually leave my van running and unlocked, not really worried about anybody stealing anything, all the other parents do as well.

In the IC I quoted above, it stipulates as an exception:

(3) A person who:
(A) may legally possess a firearm; and
(B) possesses the firearm in a motor vehicle that is being operated by the person to transport another person to or from a school or a school function.

If you exit the vehicle, you are no longer operating it. An easy loophole is to simply park off of the property, leaving your firearms locked in your vehicle.

 

[Scutter01]

IC 35-41-1-24.7
"School property" defined

(B) an entity that is required to be licensed under IC 12-17.2 or IC 31-27;

IC 31-27 seems to include any licensed childcare facility. It seems that this would make the licensed daycare at your church fall under the definition of a "school" as described in the IC.

 

[eldirector]

I think Scutter and others have nailed it down, but I'll just try to re-enforce:

If it meets the definition of a school, you must do one of 2 things if armed:
1) Do not leave your car while armed - someone else can escort your kid into the building
2) Park off-site and secure your firearm, then escort your kid

You may not leave your firearm in your vehicle on school property - ever.

On the note of "licensed daycare" and churches:
If it is licensed, it is a school. Some churches are exempt from licensing, so it MAY not be a school. This has not yet been tested in the courts.

 

[rickrish]

I think Scutter and others have nailed it down, but I'll just try to re-enforce:

If it meets the definition of a school, you must do one of 2 things if armed:
1) Do not leave your car while armed - someone else can escort your kid into the building
2) Park off-site and secure your firearm, then escort your kid

You may not leave your firearm in your vehicle on school property - ever.

On the note of "licensed daycare" and churches:
If it is licensed, it is a school. Some churches are exempt from licensing, so it MAY not be a school. This has not yet been tested in the courts.

Thanks a lot, that's kinda what I thought, thank you folks very much, I will probably have more questions in the future. I like all the great posts, this is a wonderful forum.

 

[Scutter01]

I think Scutter and others have nailed it down, but I'll just try to re-enforce:

If it meets the definition of a school, you must do one of 2 things if armed:
1) Do not leave your car while armed - someone else can escort your kid into the building
2) Park off-site and secure your firearm, then escort your kid

You may not leave your firearm in your vehicle on school property - ever.

On the note of "licensed daycare" and churches:
If it is licensed, it is a school. Some churches are exempt from licensing, so it MAY not be a school. This has not yet been tested in the courts.

Don't forget the other exemption in the IC. It appears as though the church (as the owners and operators of the school) can authorize him to carry on their property.

 

[WC Deer Hunter]

If the "licensed daycare" meets any of these definitions, it's a school.

IC 35-41-1-24.7
"School property" defined
Sec. 24.7. "School property" means the following:
(1) A building or other structure owned or rented by:
(A) a school corporation;
(B) an entity that is required to be licensed under IC 12-17.2 or IC 31-27;
(C) a private school that is not supported and maintained by funds realized from the imposition of a tax on property, income, or sales; or
(D) a federal, state, local, or nonprofit program or service operated to serve, assist, or otherwise benefit children who are at least three (3) years of age and not yet enrolled in kindergarten, including the following:
(i) A Head Start program under 42 U.S.C. 9831 et seq.
(ii) A special education preschool program.
(iii) A developmental child care program for preschool children.
(2) The grounds adjacent to and owned or rented in common with a building or other structure described in subdivision (1).

IC 20-18-2-16
"School corporation"
Sec. 16. (a) "School corporation", for purposes of this title (except IC 20-20-33, IC 20-26-1 through IC 20-26-5, IC 20-26-7, IC 20-30-8, and IC 20-43), means a public school corporation established by Indiana law. The term includes a:
(1) school city;
(2) school town;
(3) school township;
(4) consolidated school corporation;
(5) metropolitan school district;
(6) township school corporation;
(7) county school corporation;
(8) united school corporation; or
(9) community school corporation.
(b) "School corporation", for purposes of IC 20-26-1 through IC 20-26-5 and IC 20-26-7, has the meaning set forth in IC 20-26-2-4.
(c) "School corporation", for purposes of IC 20-20-33 and IC 20-30-8, includes a charter school (as defined in IC 20-24-1-4).
(d) "School corporation", for purposes of IC 20-43, has the meaning set forth in IC 20-43-1-23.

I don't believe it does. When we signed him up which was just recently the administrator told us that they receive no state or federal funding and that they don't fall under any of the requirements that state facilities do. She said they try and abide by the same guidelines but are not restricted to them because they are a ministry.

Thank you for bringing these things to my attention though. I need to do some research and find out to be sure and CMA now.