LTCH Daycare-Child drop off/pickup

[eldirector]

Ok... last question. And I know... I'm searching for a loophole even though this whole scenario doesn't apply to me.

Should you break down the gun and take the spring and barrel with you and leave the rest of the gun, it can no longer be assembled to shoot anything and you yourself are not carrying a gun into a school.

Not that I recommend trying that by the way... but maybe its a better alternative than nothing?

A) Yeah, loopholes aren't likely to save you in court
B) Just park off-site
C) Say you walk your kid into the school with the barrel and spring in your pocket, and the rest safely locked in the car. As soon as you get back to your car, you would have everything necessary to readily convert it back to a firearm, and you are right back to the (illegal) square one: on school property, with a firearm, and not dropping someone off while operating a vehicle.

Rather than hope for a loophole, I'd rather just get this fixed. Did the bill to allow LTCH on school grounds die in committee already?

 

[youngda9]

I pastor a church,,we have a REGISTERED daycare ministry.We have had the good fortune to have the same families involved in our program for quite some time.I would encourage any parent who carries responsibly and concealed to be armed at any time.The state does not offer sufficient protection to our employees and children to be able to mandate a ban on CC to parents coming in and out.

Then you should, in writing, grant them all permission. Otherwise they are comitting a crime, no?

 

[traderdan]

Crime?

Then you should, in writing, grant them all permission. Otherwise they are comitting a crime, no?

I don't believe so.Would write if asked.

 

[rickrish]

I pastor a church,,we have a REGISTERED daycare ministry.We have had the good fortune to have the same families involved in our program for quite some time.I would encourage any parent who carries responsibly and concealed to be armed at any time.The state does not offer sufficient protection to our employees and children to be able to mandate a ban on CC to parents coming in and out.

A church is private property and as far as I know a property owner can ban carrying a weapon, I believe some signage may be required to be posted for instruction.

 

[youngda9]

I don't believe so.

Why not, given what's below:

If the "licensed daycare" meets any of these definitions, it's a school.

IC 35-41-1-24.7
"School property" defined
Sec. 24.7. "School property" means the following:
(1) A building or other structure owned or rented by:
(A) a school corporation;
(B) an entity that is required to be licensed under IC 12-17.2 or IC 31-27;
(C) a private school that is not supported and maintained by funds realized from the imposition of a tax on property, income, or sales; or
(D) a federal, state, local, or nonprofit program or service operated to serve, assist, or otherwise benefit children who are at least three (3) years of age and not yet enrolled in kindergarten, including the following:
(i) A Head Start program under 42 U.S.C. 9831 et seq.
(ii) A special education preschool program.
(iii) A developmental child care program for preschool children.
(2) The grounds adjacent to and owned or rented in common with a building or other structure described in subdivision (1).

IC 35-41-1-24.7
"School property" defined

(B) an entity that is required to be licensed under IC 12-17.2 or IC 31-27;

IC 31-27 seems to include any licensed childcare facility. It seems that this would make the licensed daycare at your church fall under the definition of a "school" as described in the IC.

 

[traderdan]

Daycare

Why not, given what's below:

The state of Indiana REGISTERS daycare ministries.Because of the separation of church and state,no license is available or necessary.

 

[Mr. Habib]

From my reading of IC31-37 it appears to only pertain to group homes and foster homes, but it seems that ones run by a church could still be exempt.

IC 31-27-2-7
Child caring institutions and group homes operated by churches and religious ministries
Sec. 7. (a) Except as provided in subsections (b) and (c), the department shall exempt from licensure a child caring institution and a group home operated by a church or religious ministry that is a religious organization exempt from federal income taxation under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code (as defined in IC 6-3-1-11) and that does not:
(1) accept for care:
(A) a child who is a delinquent child under IC 31-37-1-1 or IC 31-37-2-1; or
(B) a child who is a child in need of services under IC 31-34-1-1 through IC 31-34-1-9; or
(2) operate a residential facility that provides child care on a twenty-four (24) hour basis for profit. (b) The department shall adopt rules under IC 4-22-2 to govern the inspection of a child caring institution and a group home operated by a church or religious ministry with regard to sanitation.
(c) The fire prevention and building safety commission shall adopt rules under IC 4-22-2 to govern the inspection of a child caring institution and a group home operated by a church or religious ministry under this section. The rules must provide standards for fire alarms and fire drills.
(d) A child caring institution and a group home operated by a church or religious ministry under this section shall comply with the rules established by the department and the fire prevention and building safety commission under this section.
As added by P.L.145-2006, SEC.273.

 

[WC Deer Hunter]

You can look at the Indiana website to see if they are a licensed daycare(a license status will appear when you click on the location). If they are not, since it's at a church, they are considered a "faith based ministry" and thus do not count as a "daycare" per the law...someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

https://secure.in.gov/apps/fssa/carefinder/index.html

Thank you for the link. I'm out of rep or would give you one. They are listed as a ministry so I which says they are exempt hut does not say exemt from what. Gonna see if we can get Guy to weigh in on this one.

 

[traderdan]

This all seems very confusing so we will let common sense prevail.Concealed carry is witnessed by no one.I would discourage open carry on the property.We have fathers who are career military,police officers ect.We trust them as far as anyone can be trusted.

 

[WC Deer Hunter]

This all seems very confusing so we will let common sense prevail.Concealed carry is witnessed by no one.I would discourage open carry on the property.We have fathers who are career military,police officers ect.We trust them as far as anyone can be trusted.

Yes it is very confusing and should not even be a discussion given the 2nd amendment. Common sense also says follow the law. I want to know that I am doing so. I do not wish to break it and spend 10 years in prison for carrying in a "No gun school zone". I think I'll take the legal approach and find out for sure.

OP thank you for bringing up this topic. +1 to you

 

[linkinpark9812]

Here, we can make this a WHOLE lot easier. Seems like a simple change to me!

IC 35-47-9
Chapter 9. Possession of Firearms on School Property and School Buses
IC 35-47-9-0.1
Application of chapter
Sec. 0.1. The addition of this chapter by P.L.140-1994 applies to crimes committed after June 30, 1994.
As added by P.L.220-2011, SEC.624.

IC 35-47-9-1
Exemptions from chapter
Sec. 1. This chapter does not apply to the following:
(1) A:
(A) federal;
(B) state; or
(C) local;
law enforcement officer.
(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
(A) a school; or
(B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function;
to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.
(3) A person who:
(A) may legally possess a firearm; [STRIKE]and
(B) possesses the firearm in a motor vehicle that is being operated by the person to transport another person to or from a school or a school function.[/STRIKE]
As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.

IC 35-47-9-2
Possession of firearms on school property, at school function, or on school bus; felony
Sec. 2. A person who possesses a firearm:
(1) in or on school property;
(2) in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function; or
(3) on a school bus;
commits a Class D felony.
As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.

Done! We can now close the thread!

In seriousness, though, I would stay away from any place that has a daycare that looks like an obvious daycare. You can get special permissions though, from people that are running the school, daycare, etc (administration) but it better be in writing.

 

[G19ccer]

+1 for bringing up a topic that is in countless other threads? Geesh, might as well be a rep pyramid thread.

 

[WC Deer Hunter]

double post

 

[WC Deer Hunter]

+1 for bringing up a topic that is in countless other threads? Geesh, might as well be a rep pyramid thread.

Guess I missed all the ministry/daycare threads. Must have missed your useful contribution to the thread too.

 

[G19ccer]

When redundancy abounds I leave my useless comments out. I am definitely interested in this thread. I work at a church where there is a "daycare/preschool." I didn't mean to sound snippy. Good comeback though.

 

[Arickosmo]

Stupid, catch 22 law. I can carry it in my car, I can't carry it in school to pick up kids, but I must leave my car to get kids and...I can't leave it in my car.

That all seems in order.

 

[mrortega]

My friend is a teacher and says that if you break down your gun, it is no longer considered a "firearm" and therefore can be left inside the vehichle....

can I get further clarification on whether this is correct or not?

Maybe your friend will come to visit you in the joint on Sundays.

 

[mrortega]

Legally "the gun" contains the serial number and firing mechanism IIRC. If you break down a Glock, the handle portion is considered "the gun". Even without the slide, barrel, spring, sights, and hidden Ka-Boom gremlin hiding inside.

You lose either way. If you carry the "gun" part of the broken down piece with you you are carry a gun into the facility. If you leave it in the vehicle you are guilty of not being in the vehicle in possession of it.

 

[mrortega]

Here, we can make this a WHOLE lot easier. Seems like a simple change to me!

Done! We can now close the thread!

In seriousness, though, I would stay away from any place that has a daycare that looks like an obvious daycare. You can get special permissions though, from people that are running the school, daycare, etc (administration) but it better be in writing.

I asked Sen. Jim Tomes about making that simple change in IC to bring it into conformance with federal law (exempting licensed carriers) and he said there isn't the stomach or the votes for that kind of change in the legislature at this time. Even supporters of the good laws passed last session couldn't survive in their districts if they voted for "mass murder" in the schools.

 

[Arickosmo]

Even supporters of the good laws passed last session couldn't survive in their districts if they voted for "mass murder" in the schools.

Hehe...Guess you're referring to Catholic schools