Lube question from a new AR owner

[Tom Threetoes]

Lots of good info here I appreciate all the replies, feel free to add more.

 

[sdtech58]

Break Free CLP. Pull BCG after each range trip or match to wipe down and relube. One wet patch and one dry one down the bore while the bolt is out. Deep clean at about a case or so.

 

[indygunguy]

My AKs sometimes need beat open with a Tokarev before they'll function again.

 

[chubbs]

Egw, and run her wet.

 

[Tom Threetoes]

I use Mobil one 20w50 in my motorcycle, I most always have 4 or 5 quarts around, it would be mighty handy to use that.

 

[KJQ6945]

I'm one of these people.

I typically run a gun until it stops, lube it, then keep running it several more cycles before I'll clean it. My AKs sometimes need beat open with a Tokarev before they'll function again. Unlock the bolt, spritz in a bit of Hoppes, and keep trucking.

The whole, "Well, I shot 30 rounds so I need to go home tonight and give it a deep cleaning." seems like a waste to me, not only the wasted time but the inexperience of running a dirty system. If it has to be sparkling clean or else it won't run I hope there's plenty of time and supplies during the zombie apocalypse. I'd rather treat mine to the worst case scenario and know they're going to run well until ______ than to wipe them down like a baby's backside every time they soil themselves.

Run your AR until it stops. Then squirt a little oil (any oil) into the ejection port and/or down the sides of the bolt, run the action a few times in rapid succession, and press on. You'll get several hundred more rounds out.

I'm a firm believer in keeping weapons "dirty" because the gunk fills all the nooks and cranies that could catch something and cause a malf. The action will slide along the greased rails better than clean rails because all the nooks and cranies are full and now it's smooth.

I've never understood this mentality. The AR has been around 50 years, we all understand it can be run pretty dirty, but what's the point. I clean my guns every time I use them. You clean them because there's nobody shooting at you, and you can. Very rarely does something go into the safe dirty. If I pull something out of the safe, I expect it to run for the duration of whatever reason I pulled it out for. I don't what to have to add oil in the middle of a shoot.
Guns are cleaned in the first available down time after shooting, no matter how many rounds are fired. Dirty guns malfunction, this isn't even debatable. Why put a dirty one away when you might need it tomorrow. If you really need it, there's not time to give it more lube.

 

[Sgt7330]

Engine oil, break free, Lucas ....... whatever, find what you like and go with it. Others have said it, I'll just say it again. Run the bolt and carrier group wet with oil, nice mist on first shots. I am no expert, but was trained to have the bolt wet ..... that was 15 yrs ago.

 

[shibumiseeker]

I've never understood this mentality.

You're right, you don't. And folks like us don't understand the mentality some folks have of removing every speck of dust at every opportunity. That's the great thing about this hobby: if we run our guns dirty it doesn't impact you at all and you are free to polish your gun to a shine each time and it doesn't impact us at all. 'murka!

 

[KJQ6945]

I'm one of these people.

I typically run a gun until it stops, lube it, then keep running it several more cycles before I'll clean it. My AKs sometimes need beat open with a Tokarev before they'll function again. Unlock the bolt, spritz in a bit of Hoppes, and keep trucking.

The whole, "Well, I shot 30 rounds so I need to go home tonight and give it a deep cleaning." seems like a waste to me, not only the wasted time but the inexperience of running a dirty system. If it has to be sparkling clean or else it won't run I hope there's plenty of time and supplies during the zombie apocalypse. I'd rather treat mine to the worst case scenario and know they're going to run well until ______ than to wipe them down like a baby's backside every time they soil themselves.

Run your AR until it stops. Then squirt a little oil (any oil) into the ejection port and/or down the sides of the bolt, run the action a few times in rapid succession, and press on. You'll get several hundred more rounds out.

I'm a firm believer in keeping weapons "dirty" because the gunk fills all the nooks and cranies that could catch something and cause a malf. The action will slide along the greased rails better than clean rails because all the nooks and cranies are full and now it's smooth.

You're right, you don't. And folks like us don't understand the mentality some folks have of removing every speck of dust at every opportunity. That's the great thing about this hobby: if we run our guns dirty it doesn't impact you at all and you are free to polish your gun to a shine each time and it doesn't impact us at all. 'murka!

'Merica!
This why it's the best place on earth!

 

[KJQ6945]

Just to clarify, it's not about removing every speck of dust. It's about having your weapon in the best shape and ready for the worst case scenario.
Will they run dirty? Sure. But why start that way?

I clean my guns for the same reason I change the oil in my truck. They will both run dirty, but only for so long.

 

[Hop]

Just to clarify, it's not about removing every speck of dust. It's about having your weapon in the best shape and ready for the worst case scenario.
Will they run dirty? Sure. But why start that way?

I clean my guns for the same reason I change the oil in my truck. They will both run dirty, but only for so long.

I wanted to know how dirty can they get and still run. My "go to war" guns stay pretty clean while the others have been a test bed for shtf and nothing or no time available for lube and clean. After all these years I do have a pretty good idea how long they can go. Maybe I'm lucky but all my ARs run clean or dirty.

 

[rhino]

Just to clarify, it's not about removing every speck of dust. It's about having your weapon in the best shape and ready for the worst case scenario.
Will they run dirty? Sure. But why start that way?

I clean my guns for the same reason I change the oil in my truck. They will both run dirty, but only for so long.

Do you fire them to foul the bore and make sure they function after cleaning?

How do you know it still works?

 

[KJQ6945]

Do you fire them to foul the bore and make sure they function after cleaning?

How do you know it still works?

Desk pop.

It's a real thing.

 

[MohawkSlim]

Desk pop.

It's a real thing.

HAAAAA!!!!

The reason I start with mine dirty is I've had more clean guns malf on me than dirty ones. I'm a firm believer in filling the nooks and crannies with crud so the bolt glides along the greased rail and the teeth lock in securely. With a completely clean gun it's possible to get a piece of gunk lodged in there somewhere that will shut it down. (I know that's possible with the dirty gun too but it seems to be worse with the clean one because the "hole" is bigger and therefore causes bigger pieces of crud to get stuck.)

In my first-hand research, there's no advantage to running a clean gun in terms of reliability. In fact, I've found clean guns to be less reliable.

A fouled bore was discussed above. Unless we're talking sub-moa (or similarly precise) shots the fouling is irrelevant. What I'm getting at is the case only expands so far and crap gets sent out the back (or through the gas system in DI rigs) and that starts to build up to a certain point. That point is limited by the movement of the action and it's possible to get a "smooth" balance of crud that makes the entire operation run better.

I talked it over with a guy employed by a big name steel case ammo manufacturer and he said the reason you see malfs when folks switch from steel to brass is there's no expansion in steel and all that extra crud gets sent out the back to foul the action. Switch to brass (after steel) and you'll see malfs because those little pieces have nowhere to go because the brass has expanded and covered the gaps. He also noted brass flakes off and those pieces are significantly larger than the microscopic pieces of burnt powder that accumulate over extended shooting sessions and they're far more likely to cause issues than "dirty steel cased ammo."

I whole-heartedly agree with him not only because he gives me free ammo to shoot, but because my own research led me to the same conclusion before he confirmed it with what was, no doubt, costly industrial research.

It's also worth noting I exclusively shoot steel cased ammo for practice. It runs well in a dirty rifle. I have brass cased NATO stuff for SHTF purposes and I'll be cleaning my rifle before shooting a bunch of that. It definitely shoots better in a clean(er) rifle.

Not to derail this thread but the more I shoot steel, the more I'm willing to stake my life on it. I was a NATO only guy before but I've shot so much steel over the last 10 years I'd be 100% comfortable if that's all I had.

 

[KJQ6945]

HAAAAA!!!!

The reason I start with mine dirty is I've had more clean guns malf on me than dirty ones. I'm a firm believer in filling the nooks and crannies with crud so the bolt glides along the greased rail and the teeth lock in securely. With a completely clean gun it's possible to get a piece of gunk lodged in there somewhere that will shut it down. (I know that's possible with the dirty gun too but it seems to be worse with the clean one because the "hole" is bigger and therefore causes bigger pieces of crud to get stuck.)

In my first-hand research, there's no advantage to running a clean gun in terms of reliability. In fact, I've found clean guns to be less reliable.

A fouled bore was discussed above. Unless we're talking sub-moa (or similarly precise) shots the fouling is irrelevant. What I'm getting at is the case only expands so far and crap gets sent out the back (or through the gas system in DI rigs) and that starts to build up to a certain point. That point is limited by the movement of the action and it's possible to get a "smooth" balance of crud that makes the entire operation run better.

I talked it over with a guy employed by a big name steel case ammo manufacturer and he said the reason you see malfs when folks switch from steel to brass is there's no expansion in steel and all that extra crud gets sent out the back to foul the action. Switch to brass (after steel) and you'll see malfs because those little pieces have nowhere to go because the brass has expanded and covered the gaps. He also noted brass flakes off and those pieces are significantly larger than the microscopic pieces of burnt powder that accumulate over extended shooting sessions and they're far more likely to cause issues than "dirty steel cased ammo."

I whole-heartedly agree with him not only because he gives me free ammo to shoot, but because my own research led me to the same conclusion before he confirmed it with what was, no doubt, costly industrial research.

It's also worth noting I exclusively shoot steel cased ammo for practice. It runs well in a dirty rifle. I have brass cased NATO stuff for SHTF purposes and I'll be cleaning my rifle before shooting a bunch of that. It definitely shoots better in a clean(er) rifle.

Not to derail this thread but the more I shoot steel, the more I'm willing to stake my life on it. I was a NATO only guy before but I've shot so much steel over the last 10 years I'd be 100% comfortable if that's all I had.

Thanks for a great explanation. I was just trying to understand why, not start some debate. You explained your position well.

I'm not OCD about cleaning guns because I like to clean them, or like them to be shiny, I just prefer to start with a clean, well lubed platform. If SHTF, you just add more oil and truck on.

I was in the Army, and I carried a bottle a Breakfree at all times in the field. Lube will make the dirty ones continue to run no matter how dirty you get them, but when you turned them back in to the armorer, they had to be clean and ready for the next outing.

I type this as I'm cleaning guns for FNS. I might have a problem.

 

[Doublehelix]

No flaming please!!! I have been using Balistol for cleaning and Hoppe's 9 oil for lubing in my pistols with great success ever since I first bought them. Are they considered low-end products, or are they just not good for ARs? I ask because neither product were mentioned even once in this entire thread.

 

[rvb]

If I pull something out of the safe, I expect it to run for the duration of whatever reason I pulled it out for. I don't what to have to add oil in the middle of a shoot.
...
Dirty guns malfunction, this isn't even debatable. Why put a dirty one away when you might need it tomorrow. If you really need it, there's not time to give it more lube.

The AR needs lube. Same with most pistols. It doesn't matter if you put it away clean or dirty, it needs lube to run. Even if you put it away clean, lubes dry off or harden up. So when you pull it out, you're going to want to make sure it's ready to run. Any gun I consider a "go to" gun gets opened up and a few drops of lube added every few weeks whether I've shot it or cleaned it or not, cycled to spread the lube internally, function checked, and put back. Even with liberal use, that quart of mobile1 is going to last a looong time, so no need to be stingy with it...


And yes, it is debatable about dirty guns malfunctioning. Maybe our definitions of dirty are different? crammed with mud/sand/rocks? yea, I'm going to clean it good, that'll cause malfunctions. dirty with powder residue? who cares! I've put 15-20 thousand rounds on a pistol (Beretta) before without cleaning, and it never malfunctioned. Actually, it went that long 2 or 3 times. just kept lubed. that's extreme, but it was a practice gun so I didn't waste time cleaning it when I was shooting it 2-3 times per week. my current match gun a G35 has never been cleaned... probably has 3-4k on it. I could go on and on.

I clean my guns for the same reason I change the oil in my truck. They will both run dirty, but only for so long.

so you change the oil in your truck after every trip? Or you let it go a few thousand miles until you feel it could make a difference in the reliability/longevity of the motor? not a bad analogy... for someone who doesn't clean their guns after every use.

The reason I start with mine dirty is I've had more clean guns malf on me than dirty ones.

That is my experience. I have become superstitious on the matter and refuse to carry or compete with a completely clean gun. I recall an Area USPSA match a few years back, I hadn't cleaned my match gun in many thousands of rounds. I decided to get it good and clean for this big match. First stage I had like 5 major malfunctions. Second stage I had a couple, then it ran good the rest of the match. But my match was lost on stage 1. That's just one example, but the one that tipped me over to never competing or carrying a clean gun. In other threads, I've discussed my theories and reasoning as to why it happens. and it's more likely to be an issue on guns that have seen more use I believe.

I've got ARs w/ thousands of rounds on them w/o cleaning, for some that includes silencer use, for others it includes lightened carriers and dialed down gas. I usually clean them out around 2-3k, and that's more because I can't open it up w/o getting filthy myself. Sometimes they go much longer. Otherwise, it's grab from the safe, and go shoot. I literally can only recall having one malfunction with an AR that wasn't due to a mag, and that was when a gas-tube roll pin walked out on me (I didn't have another handy and had re-used it; now I stake them).

-rvb

 

[rhino]

That is my experience. I have become superstitious on the matter and refuse to carry or compete with a completely clean gun. I recall an Area USPSA match a few years back, I hadn't cleaned my match gun in many thousands of rounds. I decided to get it good and clean for this big match. First stage I had like 5 major malfunctions. Second stage I had a couple, then it ran good the rest of the match. But my match was lost on stage 1. That's just one example, but the one that tipped me over to never competing or carrying a clean gun. In other threads, I've discussed my theories and reasoning as to why it happens. and it's more likely to be an issue on guns that have seen more use I believe.

Same here. Back in 1994 when I started shooting USPSA matches, the experienced guys told me that if/when I cleaned a gun, to fire a few rounds through it afterward before a match to make sure everything was working properly.

I haven't cleaned the AR I shoot (when I have time to shoot) in years. Just make sure it's lubed and it's good to go.

 

[rvb]

Same here. Back in 1994 when I started shooting USPSA matches, the experienced guys told me that if/when I cleaned a gun, to fire a few rounds through it afterward before a match to make sure everything was working properly.

I haven't cleaned the AR I shoot (when I have time to shoot) in years. Just make sure it's lubed and it's good to go.

When I do clean "go to" or match guns, it's usually the night before a practice session, so they end up w/ a couple hundred rounds through them the next day. Now that I'm not shooting as much, practice guns, fun guns, match guns now just usually get cleaned over Christmas vacation (Didn't have time this year, so most still have last yrs grime in them, too. oops!)

-rvb

 

[Psode27]

I've converted to Slip2k. My other whiz-bang crap solidified in cold weather. While I wouldn't be afraid of mobile1, I'll stick to Slip2k.
I try and at least run a patch through everything I own once a year. Most things I own I sadly don't shoot much. I keep my go to stuff pretty clean. When I wander up to play with something I haven't shot in a while and pull it apart, I hate it when its dirty. Anything that might be a conversation piece is clean. My CCW is a working gun, doesn't see daylight too often, and isn't really discussed. If its dirty I'm okay with that.