MALC Institute

[mammynun]

Maybe it's just me, but I equate "Big Boy Rules" with the military where (at least in the past) training was necessarily more... dangerous... than what civilians would/should do. That said, there are things I have done in the Army that I would never do with a group of civilians. That's not a knock on civilians; 1. I just haven't lived and trained with "you" (civilian or veteran) for an extended period, and 2. the risk/reward ratio of assaulting across an objective while "you" shift fire a few feet in front of me leans heavily towards the risk side of the equation.

So while I understand why some people choose to train the way they do, as a civilian I don't see the benefits to me outweighing the risks involved when the likelihood of reward is so small.

ETA: Additionally, I'm not aware of a commonly accepted definition of "BBR's." To some it seems to mean the range is run "hot" in that loaded weapons are carried/holstered at all times. Others seem to define it as having people downrange/anything goes.

 

[Coach]

In addition to no uniform definition to BBR's. Another thing that seems to be lost in the wash of military training and experience that most people don't want to talk about is that there are "acceptable loss" in military situation. That includes training as well as the mission. There are also many injuries and death by friendly fire.

Being the greedy type I don't want any loss and when it comes to the family or other people under my care.

Plus in the military there are friends handy with long guns, more friends at the other end of the radio. Not the same in the for EDC situations. Risk does not necessarily mean good training. Military experience does not necessarily mean that someone knows what they are doing. We buried Dan Ireland this past year. Dan had 66 confirmed kills in Vietnam as a member of the 4th Marines. He learned how to hold and shoot a pistol in a much later stage in life. After taking my Intermediate Pistol class and a Defensive Pistol class I asked him if he was satisfied with the training. He said he was. I asked if the training ran counter to his experiences. (Since this training took place on the square range and we did not put people down range and other BBR) He said there was nothing about the training that would keep a man from being effective, and he wished he had known this stuff sooner.

Now he may have just been being polite but I took it as a great compliment and confirmation.

 

[mammynun]

In addition to no uniform definition to BBR's. Another thing that seems to be lost in the wash of military training and experience that most people don't want to talk about is that there are "acceptable loss" in military situation. That includes training as well as the mission. There are also many injuries and death by friendly fire.

Being the greedy type I don't want any loss and when it comes to the family or other people under my care.

​Exactly. I can think of no good reason to accept the risk of practicing IMT/etc. with a dentist (or anyone else) who lives 300 miles away that I'll likely never see again.

Plus in the military there are friends handy with long guns, more friends at the other end of the radio. Not the same in the for EDC situations. Risk does not necessarily mean good training. Military experience does not necessarily mean that someone knows what they are doing. We buried Dan Ireland this past year. Dan had 66 confirmed kills in Vietnam as a member of the 4th Marines. He learned how to hold and shoot a pistol in a much later stage in life. After taking my Intermediate Pistol class and a Defensive Pistol class I asked him if he was satisfied with the training. He said he was. I asked if the training ran counter to his experiences. (Since this training took place on the square range and we did not put people down range and other BBR) He said there was nothing about the training that would keep a man from being effective, and he wished he had known this stuff sooner.

The military firearms and tactics training I received in the 80's/90's as an Infantryman has very little to do with self defense as a civilian; the mindset aspect is more beneficial IMO, probably moreso today given the threats the military now faces... "Left of Bang" type training that I didn't get... Which is just another reason that I prefer knowledge over putting 1k rounds down range in a class.

Now he may have just been being polite but I took it as a great compliment and confirmation.

You should.

I think we've drifted away from MALC... or maybe I've lost track. I'll reread the thread to see where MALC stands along the BBR's and Ballistic Masturbation scale...

 

[Brad69]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZXNkUi1vY0

This is some training we put together down in Ft. Polk a few years before I retired.
How does this compare to the training you guys are talking about at MALC?

I have only taken one civilian training course and thought it was good I had a great time and learned some new things.

I have not not taken a pistol course yet I do look forward to it. In my experience pistol training is always secondary and often lacking.

 

[SSGSAD]

I was NOT Infantry, except for one class, all my training is Military .....

We NEVER put a live human being, downrange, EXCEPT for "pulling the butts" .....

The Soldiers, or Marines, were BELOW ground level, and even then, one person, that I know of,

got hit in the shoulder, with a ricochet .....

When "playing Army", in the field we practiced,

"overwatch", I think that is what we called it .....

Anyway, you have your "fireteam", of four members,

and you all start at the same point .....

Then one moves forward, and then the second moves forward, of the first,

Then the third etc .....

this protects your front, and back .....

No LIVE ammo, was in the area at ALL !!!!!

Only blanks, and blank adapters.....

If you haven't seem a blank adapter, it screws over the end of the barrel

of the rifle, live round, and rifle barrel, blows up .....

Sorry for the long rant .....

Anyone want to go to the range, with me, and stand beside MY target, while I shoot,


LET me know .....

 

[mammynun]

I was NOT Infantry, except for one class, all my training is Military .....

We NEVER put a live human being, downrange, EXCEPT for "pulling the butts" .....

I did that with the Marines when I was TDY at LeJeune for 3 months, it was great sport to shoot the white/red marking disk on the stick. I never saw that type of range @ Ft Bragg or anywhere else in the Army. The rifle club I belong to has a 10 station pit setup...

The Soldiers, or Marines, were BELOW ground level, and even then, one person, that I know of,

got hit in the shoulder, with a ricochet .....

When "playing Army", in the field we practiced,

"overwatch", I think that is what we called it .....

Anyway, you have your "fireteam", of four members,

and you all start at the same point .....

Then one moves forward, and then the second moves forward, of the first,

Then the third etc .....

this protects your front, and back .....

You're describing "bounding overwatch."

No LIVE ammo, was in the area at ALL !!!!!

We frequently did it with live ammo, and would also assault across an "objective" at an approximately 90 degree angle with elements of various sizes shifting fire a few feet in front of us.

Only blanks, and blank adapters.....

If you haven't seem a blank adapter, it screws over the end of the barrel

of the rifle, live round, and rifle barrel, blows up .....

Sorry for the long rant .....

Anyone want to go to the range, with me, and stand beside MY target, while I shoot,


LET me know .....

No thank you.

Certainly different MOS's get different training, and back when I was in we used MILES and BFA's in MOUT training as I don't believe there was a shoot house at Bragg. Well, I guess Delta probably had one.

 

[rhino]

In addition to no uniform definition to BBR's. Another thing that seems to be lost in the wash of military training and experience that most people don't want to talk about is that there are "acceptable loss" in military situation. That includes training as well as the mission. There are also many injuries and death by friendly fire.

It's one of those phrases that depends on the context always and most of the time with the person who says it. I only know how I use it. When I've used it, it's been to reinforce that we're keeping our guns loaded (and thus useful) and not unloading and showing clear (this making them less useful) every time we left the line as is done in most competitions. Some people who sole experience shooting around people is from competition on "cold" ranges found it useful for the reminder. In my mind, it helps disconnect from the game and (re)connect with preparation for potential self-defense.

Plus in the military there are friends handy with long guns, more friends at the other end of the radio. Not the same in the for EDC situations. Risk does not necessarily mean good training. Military experience does not necessarily mean that someone knows what they are doing. We buried Dan Ireland this past year. Dan had 66 confirmed kills in Vietnam as a member of the 4th Marines. He learned how to hold and shoot a pistol in a much later stage in life. After taking my Intermediate Pistol class and a Defensive Pistol class I asked him if he was satisfied with the training. He said he was. I asked if the training ran counter to his experiences. (Since this training took place on the square range and we did not put people down range and other BBR) He said there was nothing about the training that would keep a man from being effective, and he wished he had known this stuff sooner.

Now he may have just been being polite but I took it as a great compliment and confirmation.

I think the way you took is exactly the way he intended it. I didn't know Dan as well as you or some of the others here, nor nowhere near as well as I wanted, but I do know that he did not seem like the person who would offer compliments to be polite, especially to someone like Coach. If he expressed satisfaction with the training, it was sincere.

I'm glad he chose to train with out outside of the competition-focused classes. I had a few conversations with him before that and he seemed skeptical (to be mild) about the sort of skills and lessons one might learn in defense-oriented classes. If you can satisfy an audience like Dan, you've done well.

 

[GIJEW]

Most of the armed citizens that shot the James/Younger crowd up in Minnesota were not trained professionals but they shot up some very experience gun hands. I think that is an example of people making a decision to not be victims and fighting back. They realized what was going down and decided to act. Seems like they rose to the occasion. I doubt that most of the citizens were shooting for the first time.

I spoke of being "decisive in the moment" as in dueling OODA loops. The citizens of Northfield MN counter attacked the james/younger gang from cover and concealment (using mostly rifles against handguns). They had the initiative and opportunity to assess and then engage. Basically the opposite of realizing you're under attack and responding.

It's beyond argument that it's possible to teach the mechanics of gun fighting on a square range. Mindset is another matter. FWIW I recall my company CO getting in my face and telling me that it was a dress rehearsal for reality, and it wasn't enough to just shoot the targets, but that I had to ATTACK the targets with murder in my eyes. I think FoF with simunitions addresses some of that.

Speaking of mindset, IMO drills like 'bounding overwatch' that have you shooting past--measured in yards--or being shot past, do provide some 'stress innoculation' and could be appropriate in advanced classes (I'm not endorsing T.R.'s 'down range' photographer). And yes, the argument about the risk/benefit analysis is valid. Likewise, I agree that the applicability of small unit tactics for EDC is really limited. In any case, if someone wants to push the envelope like that with their training, I'm not going to criticize them.

 

[ViperJock]

I spoke of being "decisive in the moment" as in dueling OODA loops. The citizens of Northfield MN counter attacked the james/younger gang from cover and concealment (using mostly rifles against handguns). They had the initiative and opportunity to assess and then engage. Basically the opposite of realizing you're under attack and responding.

It's beyond argument that it's possible to teach the mechanics of gun fighting on a square range. Mindset is another matter. FWIW I recall my company CO getting in my face and telling me that it was a dress rehearsal for reality, and it wasn't enough to just shoot the targets, but that I had to ATTACK the targets with murder in my eyes. I think FoF with simunitions addresses some of that.

Speaking of mindset, IMO drills like 'bounding overwatch' that have you shooting past--measured in yards--or being shot past, do provide some 'stress innoculation' and could be appropriate in advanced classes (I'm not endorsing T.R.'s 'down range' photographer). And yes, the argument about the risk/benefit analysis is valid. Likewise, I agree that the applicability of small unit tactics for EDC is really limited. In any case, if someone wants to push the envelope like that with their training, I'm not going to criticize them.

Well said. Also like Coach and Rhino posts. Some good points being made. I think the important thing is to decide what you are comfortable with and train at a correlating institute. I feel comfortable and safe with a roped gun, because logic tells me it cannot hurt me. And so it doesn't bother me. I would not like having strangers of ?? Skill level shooting from behind/toward me. I have taken a partner class and had my parter cross behind me during live fire drills--muzzle down. I'm ok with that, because it's my partner- not Hugh Happytrigger.

I think what we are seeing in this topic are two things: a paternalistic instinct combined with a sheep dog instinct which most of us have as experienced shooters, trainers, and parents combined with the second thing: fear that a shooter/trainer will do something stupid and it will reflect badly on all of us in the media/legislature. One thing I've learned in my brief stint on this planet: you cannot prevent people from doing stupid **** and the dumber the **** is, the cooler it looks to some people. That and the ability to rationalize is more of a God given right than free speech.

 

[roscott]

Necrothread.

Anyone had recent experience with MALC?

Considering a couple of their classes, but having done some really good civilian training and some mediocre training, I’d much rather pay for the former.

 

[jsharmon7]

I’m interested in their “close contact gunfighter” next month. I wanted to go to TN the same weekend for a 2-day class but realized it’s only two weeks before Ohio Range Day. That much traveling for classes won’t make my wife happy. I’d like to do something, though.

 

[BravoOneFour]

Anybody have any experience with these guys? If so, what did you think? I keep seeing their classes shared in Facebook.

MALC Training Institute

I've been to their classes multiple times and have never been disappointed.

 

[cedartop]

I've been to their classes multiple times and have never been disappointed.

Who else have you trained with?

 

[BravoOneFour]

Who else have you trained with?

There was a place I went to in southern Indiana that is now closed since the owner passed. I believe it was called five stones training. But normally me and the boys just get groups together here and train on our own.

 

[nwebb01]

Necrothread.

Anyone had recent experience with MALC?

Considering a couple of their classes, but having done some really good civilian training and some mediocre training, I’d much rather pay for the former.

I took a class last summer. Defense handgun 1. After watching WPS training online, I was somewhat disappointed with the class. Was it useless? Not at all, but it was a lot of dry fire. Didn't do live fire until after lunch break. To me, it seemed very slow paced. We had a few older gents that I don't think had ever shot, so I do understand that the instructor could only go as fast as the slowest guy. None of the content was bad, but when you watch WPS, seems like other training is a bit of a step down.

Would I try another class? Yes, but not a level 1 class. It said it was required, but I think they allow some exceptions that I'd push on.

Just me two cents.

 

[BravoOneFour]

I took a class last summer. Defense handgun 1. After watching WPS training online, I was somewhat disappointed with the class. Was it useless? Not at all, but it was a lot of dry fire. Didn't do live fire until after lunch break. To me, it seemed very slow paced. We had a few older gents that I don't think had ever shot, so I do understand that the instructor could only go as fast as the slowest guy. None of the content was bad, but when you watch WPS, seems like other training is a bit of a step down.

Would I try another class? Yes, but not a level 1 class. It said it was required, but I think they allow some exceptions that I'd push on.

Just me tw

I did their level 1 handgun and rifle as well a while back. It's def geared toward brand new shooters. But I took it with my wife for her sake and that's exactly what she needed. I think that's the whole point of the level 1 if you read their descriptions. Also why the level 1 class is so cheap. Their advanced classes are significantly more intense.

 

[nucular]

Anyone taken this one?

MALC Training Institute - Fighting in Structures / CQB

FIGHTING IN STRUCTURES / CQB

Registration

• Registration – $325.00

​

About This Course:

You're a police officer, on patrol when you get a domestic violence call. As you arrive at the door you hear screaming on the other side. How do you enter the house, how do you move from room to room, how do you carry your weapon?

You're in bed and hear the door crash in. You know the police are 10 minutes away. How do you move through your house insuring your family is safe?

All of these questions and MANY more will be explored in this course. You will learn how to fight in and around buildings, in full light, full darkness, and the spectrum between. You will learn how to work in alone, in pairs, and in a small team. You will learn how to use handguns, long guns (shotgun or rifle), sticks, knives, and improvised weapons in an encolsed space. This is a team based training where you will learn to work with other officers, concealed carry permit holders, and first responders to counter threats. This course WILL cover dynamic room entry, search, and clear techniques.

The skills will be applicable whether you are beginning civilian or a more advance law enforcement officer.

Equipment Required:

Eye protection

Flashlight

Gloves and Throat Protection

Please bring your current handgun, holster, and rifle. No magazines or ammo.

Pre-requisites:

Solid understanding of firearms safety

Notes:

This a non-firing course. We will be using simunition and/or airsoft only. All live weapons will have firing pins removed by our armorer prior to the start of the event.

You must be willing to put your fears and preconcieved notions to the side. This will be a training of your mind as much as your skill. You do not have to be in excellent physical condition, but do expect to be moving often.

Location will be near the Columbus Indiana Area and will be disclosed 1 week prior to the course.

Price:

$325

 

[FreeLand]

I have done more than a dozen classes with MALC (shooting, medical, self-defense & soft skills). I have never been to Gunsite or any of the other high-end facilities, so I don't have a lot to compare it to. As others have commented, the Basic and Intro shooting classes are geared for people with little to no experience handling firearms. Higher level training like the NSW (Naval Special Warfare) classes have all been excellent and challenging for someone without a military or LEO background. Most if not all of the advanced shooting/tactical classes have been taught by former special operations personnel or people with similar backgrounds.

 

[Viking Fires]

Anyone taken this one?

MALC Training Institute - Fighting in Structures / CQB

FIGHTING IN STRUCTURES / CQB

Registration

• Registration – $325.00

​

About This Course:

You're a police officer, on patrol when you get a domestic violence call. As you arrive at the door you hear screaming on the other side. How do you enter the house, how do you move from room to room, how do you carry your weapon?

You're in bed and hear the door crash in. You know the police are 10 minutes away. How do you move through your house insuring your family is safe?

All of these questions and MANY more will be explored in this course. You will learn how to fight in and around buildings, in full light, full darkness, and the spectrum between. You will learn how to work in alone, in pairs, and in a small team. You will learn how to use handguns, long guns (shotgun or rifle), sticks, knives, and improvised weapons in an encolsed space. This is a team based training where you will learn to work with other officers, concealed carry permit holders, and first responders to counter threats. This course WILL cover dynamic room entry, search, and clear techniques.

The skills will be applicable whether you are beginning civilian or a more advance law enforcement officer.

Equipment Required:

Eye protection

Flashlight

Gloves and Throat Protection

Please bring your current handgun, holster, and rifle. No magazines or ammo.

Pre-requisites:

Solid understanding of firearms safety

Notes:

This a non-firing course. We will be using simunition and/or airsoft only. All live weapons will have firing pins removed by our armorer prior to the start of the event.

You must be willing to put your fears and preconcieved notions to the side. This will be a training of your mind as much as your skill. You do not have to be in excellent physical condition, but do expect to be moving often.

Location will be near the Columbus Indiana Area and will be disclosed 1 week prior to the course.

Price:

$325

Took that class about 2 years ago. When I did it, it was 2 (8) hr days taught by a police officer who had time spent on a large metro SWAT team. Location seems to depend on availability, when I did it, we were at a large camping bunkhouse type thing that had multiple rooms and floors.

It was entirely team based, did not do any single man CQB. Mostly did teams of 3-5. Would start out clearing while looking for objects, then complaint people that would be hidden throughout the building, they wouldn’t shoot back at first, you’d just have to methodically find all of them.

Second day they would start shooting back but were told to remain at a stationary location, then after a couple rotations they were free to run around as they pleased to confuse the CQB team. I don’t recall anything being taught on knives or unarmed tactics.

The first day the instructor hid kickballs around the building and you’d have to call them out as you found them. For that portion we could use unloaded but real firearms. Surprising how easy it is to pass up a kick ball hidden in plain sight.

Once people started hiding it was airsoft only.