Man Dies After NYPD Chokehold

[Que]

I'm in no way condoning the use of a choke hold in police actions...but 39 prior arrests...

Just saying.

What are you "just saying"? How many arrests before someone deserves to be killed? Sure, they guy wasn't an angel, but is the crime of selling individual cigarettes something the NY police believe is a gateway crime or something? I doubt it.

 

[Trigger Time]

You think the founding fathers wanted a nation of smugglers and tax evaders? It's difficult to reconcile that with our first president raising a militia over 10,000 strong and armed as the military of the the time in response to unpaid whisky taxes and attacks on the tax collectors.

The rebelled against the crown and set up a system for the people to change the law, not ignore it or rebel as they saw fit.

No, they wanted a country without oppressive tax laws and with due process. If you think the folks by and large responsible for the Declaration of Independence were the same ones suppressing the whiskey tax protest nearly 20 years later, you are historically mistaken. Neither Washington nor Hamilton are even signatories to the DoI. Please reread what you quoted, it says nothing like what you say.

It saddens me that the American people are on board with making it a criminal offense to sell your own individual cigarettes.

I'm confident that the men who died fighting for our independence would feel the same.


This doesn't mean I'm advocating for rebellion or even breaking the law. It means I don't believe the law should be what it is.

Washington was a bootlegger while he sent an army to quell bootleggers. Same as today with politicians .... Do what I say subject not what I do because I'm elite. I love it when the ones at the top fall hard. Can't wait for holder to be arrested one day unless odumbo pardons him.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Man in chokehold death had no throat damage: autopsy | New York Post

The forbidden chokehold used by a cop to take down a Staten Island man in a deadly encounter Thursday did not damage his windpipe or neck bones, sources said.The preliminary autopsy findings could be welcome news for Police Officer Daniel Pantaleo, now named as the cop who wrapped his arm around Eric Garner’s throat while trying to *arrest him.
“If you’re the defense counsel in this case, this is very good news, because it’s consistent with what appears to be the case — that they didn’t mean to hurt him,” said John Jay College of Criminal Justice Professor Eugene O’Donnell.
But a source close to the Medical Examiner’s investigation said coroners are also investigating whether the chokehold still contributed to Garner’s death by aggravating his pre-existing conditions of obesity, asthma and possible heart disease. He died of cardiac arrest in the ambulance on the way to the hospital.

(more at link)

 

[BehindBlueI's]

What are you "just saying"? How many arrests before someone deserves to be killed? Sure, they guy wasn't an angel, but is the crime of selling individual cigarettes something the NY police believe is a gateway crime or something? I doubt it.

Nobody killed him for selling individual cigarettes. That's the same argument as the illegal alien advocates say when they say stuff like "he got deported for speeding." No, that's what the original stop was for. Then it escalated as either facts changed or other facts were brought to life.

If the guy had complied, would the fight have taken place? No, but he decided to not cooperate. That led to an escalation of the event. How many people in NY get busted under this law? How many get killed? Right, this isn't an execution for breaking a minor law, let's not pretend otherwise.

 

[bingley]

See, liberals aren't good at choking people to death, right?

 

[j706]

I searched and didn't see this posted yet.

This is an extremely disturbing piece of news. A defenseless man, a father, having words with police officers on a NYC sidewalk. The man had not done anything wrong, had in fact just broken up a another fight. Not threatening, but upset. Police charge and throw him to the ground in a chokehold, man begs them to stop repeatedly, I can't breath, I can't breath. He dies.

The cop who killed the man with the chokehold has been taken off the street, had to turn in his badge and gun, but is apparently still on the force.

WARNING - Very very disturbing - I can't get this video out of my head. Something is very wrong here.

Man begged police to stop choking him moments before he died | Rare

NYPD cop who used chokehold on Eric Garner stripped of shield, gun ? New York Daily News | TexasPolitica.com

"The Cop that killed the man" is some pretty strong words when it is apparent to a casual observer that no one killed the guy. It was a fat guy that resisted arrest and kicked the bucket as a result of it. No body killed him. NYPD may be allowed to use a neck hold (Forget the technical name) by their policy and training. The officer that grabbed and held him by the neck only did so for a limited amount of time and it sure wasn't long enough to had killed him.

 

[rgrimm01]

Big bass eat big bait for a reason. To eat small bait is not an efficient return of energy gained per energy expended.

I find it hard to believe that NYC has so few problems that selling a cigarette (whether he did or not was being contested) is at the top of the list and worthy of tying up the time of 6 officers at the scene and during the trial that is sure to come.

 

[PRasko]

What are you "just saying"? How many arrests before someone deserves to be killed? Sure, they guy wasn't an angel, but is the crime of selling individual cigarettes something the NY police believe is a gateway crime or something? I doubt it.

What I was "just saying" was, the more you deal with cops*or anyone for that matter*, the more likely you are to get one that's an ***hole.

 

[rgrimm01]

"The Cop that killed the man" is some pretty strong words when it is apparent to a casual observer that no one killed the guy. It was a fat guy that resisted arrest and kicked the bucket as a result of it. No body killed him. NYPD may be allowed to use a neck hold (Forget the technical name) by their policy and training. The officer that grabbed and held him by the neck only did so for a limited amount of time and it sure wasn't long enough to had killed him.

From NYPD's patrol guide: 203-11 use of force; effective date 8/1/2013 states that members of NYPD will NOT (in the guide it is capped and underscored) use chokeholds.

 

[Amishman44]

If I've read today's update(s), the officer who performed the 'choke hold' has been suspended and his badge and gun taken...pending the investigation!

 

[IndyDave1776]

Hardly news to anyone that I would generally be critical of a death precipitated by police action over something stupid, but it is difficult to be too critical of the officer considering that the man was a rolling wreck and he simply added the straw that broke the camel's back. While I was initially impressed that NYPD is apparently taking the situation seriously, I have to wonder how much of the seriousness is of their own volition and how much is circling the wagons and preparing for Al Sharpton and the Feds.

From what I remember of NYC (with very little experience, and I would have been happen with even less) street vendors can become a significant problem for the passage of pedestrian traffic in addition to any tax evasion or trademark infringement, or customs evasion issues which may be applicable. My guess that the he wasn't just chiseling his buddies for sharing a few squares. I can understand why people take umbrage through the police for not being able to effectively use the sidewalks they paid for to walk on. One of the nice things about living in areas with fewer public services is that we have lower taxes and a lower stake in seeing to it that we receive what we pay for given that the cost and need are both less.

 

[bingley]

From what I remember of NYC (with very little experience, and I would have been happen with even less) street vendors can become a significant problem for the passage of pedestrian traffic in addition to any tax evasion or trademark infringement, or customs evasion issues which may be applicable. My guess that the he wasn't just chiseling his buddies for sharing a few squares. I can understand why people take umbrage through the police for not being able to effectively use the sidewalks they paid for to walk on. One of the nice things about living in areas with fewer public services is that we have lower taxes and a lower stake in seeing to it that we receive what we pay for given that the cost and need are both less.

It's not just money. It's sometimes a business or quality of life issue. Do you want street vendors to squat in front of your store, affecting your business? Or turn your front yard into their sales office? Or do you want vendors who sell cheap knock-off goods down the block from your own store selling the real item?

Areas with fewer public services usually are poor and cannot afford nice stuff. So unless you're quite wealthy, your lifestyle isn't too good.

 

[rambone]

Once again we are reminded that nothing, I mean NOTHING, is too stupid and menial that violent enforcers won't put their hands around your throat until you either comply or die.

He was literally suspected of selling his own property. Smokes. These are voluntary transactions, not hurting anyone, like the kind that have been taking place in marketplaces around the world for all of human history.

We can't have that.... not on my watch, scumbag. Here, let me protect you from those freedoms.

And if watching the unaccountable killing isn't disturbing enough, then read the blue-wall of support for the NYPD bullies. Apparently the fascism is not limited to New York City.

Was squeezing the taxes out of that guy's neck was worth it? Its ruined lives, and created more fear, disgust, and animosity towards police in general. Job well done, really? Who is better off? Is the community safer? Did NYPD make any friends this way? How tone-deaf must one be to defend this?

 

[BigShow]

Former Ohio Deputy Sheriff here. Maybe I am way off base but in this situation, the guy was not trying to run or cause bodily harm to to the officers or others, why did they need to touch him. Does not verbal judo work anymore? I had a course in verbal judo back in the late 90's. But lets back up a minute, the guy was selling cigarettes individually correct? Not causing bodily harm to another, why not just write him an appearance ticket and walk away?

 

[Trigger Time]

You think the founding fathers wanted a nation of smugglers and tax evaders? It's difficult to reconcile that with our first president raising a militia over 10,000 strong and armed as the military of the the time in response to unpaid whisky taxes and attacks on the tax collectors.

The rebelled against the crown and set up a system for the people to change the law, not ignore it or rebel as they saw fit.

Former Ohio Deputy Sheriff here. Maybe I am way off base but in this situation, the guy was not trying to run or cause bodily harm to to the officers or others, why did they need to touch him. Does not verbal judo work anymore? I had a course in verbal judo back in the late 90's. But lets back up a minute, the guy was selling cigarettes individually correct? Not causing bodily harm to another, why not just write him an appearance ticket and walk away?

Yeah the more I've watched and read on this I'm outraged. The guy was no saint but he didn't do anything to get his attacked like this by multiple officers. Ganged up on is what it would be called in the school yard. He didn't look aggressive towards them at all. I think tiny cop had a case of little man syndrome and tried to show off what he could do and couldn't even do it. I think jail time would be fair for him. I'm sure this family will never need to work agin after their lawyers are done with the city. Which the officers will just laugh at since it doesn't come out of their pockets.
i still don't agree with resisting cops but this shouldn't have went hands on from my non Leo eyes, opinion.

 

[Tombs]

Once again we are reminded that nothing, I mean NOTHING, is too stupid and menial that violent enforcers won't put their hands around your throat until you either comply or die.

He was literally suspected of selling his own property. Smokes. These are voluntary transactions, not hurting anyone, like the kind that have been taking place in marketplaces around the world for all of human history.

We can't have that.... not on my watch, scumbag. Here, let me protect you from those freedoms.

And if watching the unaccountable killing isn't disturbing enough, then read the blue-wall of support for the NYPD bullies. Apparently the fascism is not limited to New York City.

Was squeezing the taxes out of that guy's neck was worth it? Its ruined lives, and created more fear, disgust, and animosity towards police in general. Job well done, really? Who is better off? Is the community safer? Did NYPD make any friends this way? How tone-deaf must one be to defend this?

We don't have a free market here, we have a socialist system of wealth redistribution, and if you disagree with it, you will be sent to jail or murdered.

Since this is the law of the land, people will defend it blindly and without question. What I want to know is, what was this man's yearly income? Did he even qualify to file taxes in the first place? If you're scalping cigarettes on the street, I doubt you're working a full time job.

If that's the case, do the police really have nothing better to do than harass the lowest class over pennies? Oh no, he might cheat uncle sam out of paying for illegal immigrant's room and board, clearly a spawn of the devil himself.

As far as the polices' attempt to arrest the man, all I see is terrible training in action. They can't control the situation verbally, and they can't control the situation physically without ending someone's life. There's really no greater way to fail your duty as a police officer.

 

[JetGirl]

I am for decriminalization of small amounts for personal use and maybe 2-4 plants.

I'm for decriminalization for all victimless "crimes".

What's the difference between what this guy was doing and bumming cigarettes on breaks at work all week and then the next week saying "here's $$ for last weeks smokes."?

At that point, he was going to run, alluding all of the officers on the scene

*elude

 

[Denny347]

Man in chokehold death had no throat damage: autopsy | New York Post



(more at link)

Not surprised. The choke hold didn't kill him. It really is hard to tell (or impossible) from the video but it is possible that this guy died of a heart attack from being taken to the ground. Positional asphyxia is very hard to prove and this video doesn't show a lot. If you are to believe his claims and that he was having trouble breathing when he was yelling out, that could have been a result of a heart attack in progress and not suffocating. Difficulty breathing can be a sign of a heart attack. If there are NO signs found at autopsy other than a heart attack, prosecuting the officer will be very difficult.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Yeah the more I've watched and read on this I'm outraged. The guy was no saint but he didn't do anything to get his attacked like this by multiple officers. Ganged up on is what it would be called in the school yard. He didn't look aggressive towards them at all. I think tiny cop had a case of little man syndrome and tried to show off what he could do and couldn't even do it. I think jail time would be fair for him. I'm sure this family will never need to work agin after their lawyers are done with the city. Which the officers will just laugh at since it doesn't come out of their pockets.
i still don't agree with resisting cops but this shouldn't have went hands on from my non Leo eyes, opinion.

So if its a minor law and you decide you don't want a ticket or to be arrested, the cops should just walk off? Only enforce the law on the willing?

Its not a school yard. Its not a "fight" and its not designed to give the arrestee a sporting chance. It is apprehending a criminal, and he has multiple opportunities, even in the edited version, to comply.

 

[rambone]

So if its a minor law and you decide you don't want a ticket or to be arrested, the cops should just walk off?

Officers should never put someone in that position. Their consciences should indicate that punishing people for trivial nonsense is more detrimental than just letting it go and finding some real crime.

There is no moral justification for placing hands on another person because he sold his own property.