critter592
Sharpshooter
Earlier argument and the guy came back at 2am kicking in the door.
Man killed during break-in attempt
Man killed during break-in attempt
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Man killed during break-in attempt.
- Thread starter critter592
- Start date
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Not even that but I would have waited until the door was kicked in AND after I told that guy to stop a couple of times with loud verbal commands I would have THEN pull the trigger if he didnt stop or didnt went to the ground.
Yep that doesnt look like a wise thing to do to shoot through the door just because the guy was "about to kick the door in".
You dont shoot someone because he was "about to do something".
It looks like the shooter's life was not in danger as the guy was not even inside his home yet.
Texas allows people to shoot through the door if someone is trying to break in. Edie Brickell & New Bohemians Keyboard Player Shot to Death by Girlfriend's Neighbor After Domestic Spat - Celebrity Gossip | Entertainment News | Arts And Entertainment - FOXNews.com This guy aimed high but the guy outside was 6'5" and shot him in the head.
No charges filed.
No charges filed.Texas allows people to shoot through the door if someone is trying to break in. Edie Brickell & New Bohemians Keyboard Player Shot to Death by Girlfriend's Neighbor After Domestic Spat - Celebrity Gossip | Entertainment News | Arts And Entertainment - FOXNews.com This guy aimed high but the guy outside was 6'5" and shot him in the head.
While you have to know what the law in your state allows you to do regarding the use of lethal force, what you may allow yourself to do is different and what you thing is the right thing to do should still command your actions.
Even if I lived in Texas and it would be legal to kill someone by shooting through my dront door I still wouldnt do it and act like I mentioned in my previous post.
I just dont think its right to take someone's life just because that person is about to break into your home when your life is not in danger yet.
Just because its legal doesnt mean its right.But the idea of what's right and wrong depends on who you are.
Its also true the other way around, even if something is illegal I can still be thinking that its the right thing to do.
For exemple if I feel that myself or my loved ones are in serious danger and I feel it could be a threat to my or their lifes I would use lethal force even if it not legal for me to do so.
I do what's right for me first then I do what's right according to the law.
I think lots of people think the same way.
Im talking about serious life or death situations here of course.Not about thinking that its right for me to drive over the speed limit.
If what I feel is the right think is also legal then its the best scenario for me.
If they had an argument earlier did the guy say he was coming back to kill him, did he have a weapon, did he warn the would be intruder that he had a firearm? Is it illegal in that state to use force to stop a felony? Alot of questions come up in this scenario. I agree with Sylvain, I don't think I would kill the man if he was not in my house yet unless he was firing into the house at me. Once he threatens mine or my family's life the law is out the window.
Disposable Heart
Grandmaster
Indiana law does say that you can shoot to prevent forcible entry:
Indiana Code 35-41-3
IC 35-41-3-2
Use of force to protect person or property
Sec. 2. (a) A person is justified in using reasonable force against another person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.
(b) A person:
(1) is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against another person; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle.
(c) With respect to property other than a dwelling, curtilage, or an occupied motor vehicle, a person is justified in using reasonable force against another person if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to immediately prevent or terminate the other person's trespass on or criminal interference with property lawfully in the person's possession, lawfully in possession of a member of the person's immediate family, or belonging to a person whose property the person has authority to protect. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
Please note highlighted part, you don't know if he went to get a gun, but you are preventing forcible entry. You claimed loudly that you would shoot them, they have not left and are still kicking in the door. I think one would know the difference between banging on the door loudly and trying to kick it in.
So as to "lawyers doing him in", that probably won't happen if the letter of the law has been followed and the homeowner doesn't try to spout off bravado. You fear for your life and you are in your home, you have no obligation to retreat and every right to fire, weapon or not in the other jackarse's hand. You are in fear and they are trying forcible, NONAUTHORIZED entry.
Indiana Code 35-41-3
IC 35-41-3-2
Use of force to protect person or property
Sec. 2. (a) A person is justified in using reasonable force against another person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.
(b) A person:
(1) is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against another person; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle.
(c) With respect to property other than a dwelling, curtilage, or an occupied motor vehicle, a person is justified in using reasonable force against another person if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to immediately prevent or terminate the other person's trespass on or criminal interference with property lawfully in the person's possession, lawfully in possession of a member of the person's immediate family, or belonging to a person whose property the person has authority to protect. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
Please note highlighted part, you don't know if he went to get a gun, but you are preventing forcible entry. You claimed loudly that you would shoot them, they have not left and are still kicking in the door. I think one would know the difference between banging on the door loudly and trying to kick it in.
So as to "lawyers doing him in", that probably won't happen if the letter of the law has been followed and the homeowner doesn't try to spout off bravado. You fear for your life and you are in your home, you have no obligation to retreat and every right to fire, weapon or not in the other jackarse's hand. You are in fear and they are trying forcible, NONAUTHORIZED entry.
Well like I said it may be legal but it doesnt sound right to me.
I would not take someones life unless I really have to and I will give myself the duty to retreat even if the law says that I dont have that duty to retreat.
If someone breaks in I will probably step back while ordering that person to stop to give him more chance to stop.I would only shoot if I cant retreat anymore like if im back to a wall or if that person is getting to my loved ones.I would also not shoot if I can stop that person otherwise.
What if someone enters your house in the middle of the night (you didnt lock the door).You point a gun at him, ask him to stop and he still walks towards you.You shoot him and kill him like you can legally do.
Was it legal?
Yes.
Was it right?
Well you tell me after you learned more about the person who walked in your house and that you killed.
This person had mental illness, he thought he lived here or maybe he lived here years ago and since he had alzhameir he forgot that he doesnt lived here anymore.
Due to his mental illness he didnt understand that gun pointing at him and your commands was a threat to himself and didnt stop walking towards you.
Maybe he was deaf, didnt see your gun as you were standing in the dark and didnt hear your commands.
It was legal to shoot him ... but was it right?
Not everything legal is right just like not everything right is legal.
All my doors have glass where I can see through the top half of the doors. If someone is attempting to break in I will shoot through the glass after making my presence known. The reason is it's easier to shoot them when I'm aiming through a 30" door and they can't charge me or hide in the house if the bottom part of the door is still blocking their entry. My main goal is to stop the threat as soon as possible and prevent him from gaining the upper hand.
A dead intruder is good but a dead intruder who doesn't make a bloody mess in my house is even better. Nothing a little bleach and a garden hose wont clean up then.
A dead intruder is good but a dead intruder who doesn't make a bloody mess in my house is even better. Nothing a little bleach and a garden hose wont clean up then.
No way would I back myself against a wall in my own house. If it takes place on my property I will not retreat and will be charging the person. There is only 1 time when I would retreat all others I'm charging and shooting. That 1 event that could happen is if I pulled in the driveway when nobody was home and an intruder was in the house. I'd back out and call 911.
There is only one way I'm going to attempt to stop an attack on me or my family.
I would not try to fight the person under any circumstances. Your probably bigger than me so you might stand a better chance but I have kids in the house and I'm not taking the chance. I'm 5'9" 155 I would consider this a good legal shoot. Honestly how many times has this happened. I have a better chance of seeing bigfoot then this being the outcome after shooting someone in my home.
Disposable Heart
Grandmaster
Leaving the ever sordid topic of "morality" out of the arguement, the guy, mental deficiency or not, was there to hurt someone, period. Mental illness? Even more issue to shoot. If they are crazy enough to kick down my door, what are they going to do when they find "denizens" in what they percieve is their house? It's sickening enough when mental illness is used as a defense but to comprehend it as a reason for them to kill me is even worse.
Alot of folks are laboring under the little boy fantasy world idea that they have tons of time to make "morality" calls. Having been mugged twice, there is no time to think or dutch load a gun, or count rounds or whatever misinformation dujour. The law is helpful in this. It makes the decisions in this case. You have a loon busting down your door. Are you that conscious of morality to the point where you are yelling at them to get out when they level a weapon at you? YOU DON'T HAVE TIME TO SCREW AROUND, get to business. This is akin to "warning shots" or "my first rounds are filled with rock salt" crap that will get you killed. Which one do you want? Want to be a martyr, but at least you and your murdered family are "moral" in not shooting a nutjob or do you want to live? The world isn't what movies and fiction make it to be.
Couldn't agree more. Especially in the linked news story, this sounded like a situation that needed to be handled they way it was.
If someone was trying to beat my door down, I'd say that reason enough to believe you're in danger.
LegatoRedrivers
Sharpshooter
- Feb 10, 2011
- 564
- 18
I would have waited until the door was kicked in before shooting as well. I have steel security doors; the round may not have made it all the way through.
The biggest thing here (especially in Indiana) is would a reasonable person think you were in life threatening danger.
If someone is kicking in my door period, I feel threatened. If they were already there and we had an altercation I am even more threatened.
Did he have a weapon? Maybe…That doesn’t make a good shoot or a bad shoot. I am 6’10’’ and I can hold my own however there are guys that are 6’5” that could take me and I am sure there are guys that are 5’5” that could take me. Just because I did not see a weapon does not mean I have to be fearful for my life.
If he made it all the way in the house, what if he wasn’t alone? Now there are multiple attackers and they are that much closer to my daughters.
If someone is kicking in my door period, I feel threatened. If they were already there and we had an altercation I am even more threatened.
Did he have a weapon? Maybe…That doesn’t make a good shoot or a bad shoot. I am 6’10’’ and I can hold my own however there are guys that are 6’5” that could take me and I am sure there are guys that are 5’5” that could take me. Just because I did not see a weapon does not mean I have to be fearful for my life.
If he made it all the way in the house, what if he wasn’t alone? Now there are multiple attackers and they are that much closer to my daughters.
E5RANGER375
Shooter
to each their own. i would have no problem shooting a theif or carjacker, through a closed door or trying to steal my stuff. i only wish it was legal here in indiana so more people would do it. fast justice that fits the crime in my opinion. tax dollars saved now and in the future and also helps clean up the gene pool. even here, if someone yells through my door they are gonna kill me, im gonna take their word and kill them first.
I'm sorry, but anyone who enters your home is there to do you and your family harm. Why on Earth would you back into a wall to see what kind of person your dealing with is beyond me.
That person is in your home. You HAVE to assume he'll do you harm. You either pull that trigger, or you wait til he pulls his first. Plain and simple.
That person is in your home. You HAVE to assume he'll do you harm. You either pull that trigger, or you wait til he pulls his first. Plain and simple.
E5RANGER375
Shooter
the basic right to live and to protect your loved ones trumps any law of man. they can sit on their bench and think they own me but they dont.
1032JBT
LEO and PROUD of it.......even if others aren't
If I was the officer that responded and had the sole descion on charges, nobody would be sitting on a bench judging you for anything. In m mind it was a justified shoot. Now was it morally right???? That is not for me to decide, that is between them and a higher power.
My take on it is this:
If someone pulls a gun or knife on me, do I have to wait until they fire a round or try to stab me before I shoot?? Nope, it's all about if I felt my life or the life of another was in danger of death or SBI. Why should I have to wait until he gets the door open and crosses the threshold before I shoot? If I feel those same threatened feelings as above, then booger hook on bang switch and activate, I'll have the rest of my life to decide if I was morally right or not..............but at least me and mine will be alive to think about it.
And no........I am not saying open fire on anyone that knocks to hard my door. This incident, 0200hrs and kicking my door...........he aint there to deliver my girlscout cookies.
Now I do understand there are those that would wait, and that choice is yours and yours alone and I support you in whatever choice you would make.
