Man with air gun killed in Wal-Mart

[Arthur Dent]

Wow so little information and so much smug justice! How many MWAG stories have we read about where the caller said the MWAG was pointing it a people, waving it around, etc when the facts proved they didn't? Not saying there wasn't some stupid floating around, on both sides, but maybe I missed the video? I love how they're emphasizing "variable pump air rifle" in an attempt to make it sound dirty!

Exactly. A supposed Marine veteran saying the guy was carrying a "black gun" and "trying to load it." People over reacting.

 

[Arthur Dent]

You're obviously posting with an anti-LE attitude. Stop and consider just how foolish what you have posted makes you seem. Your "what if" and "maybe" nonsense is just that. There were no eyewitnesses who said any of the things you posted. Quit trying to make excuses for this clown's stupidity.

Check your whacked bias at the door when you visit gun forums. You'll have a more enjoyable experience. The idiot got exactly what he deserved.

So not agreeing with the general consensus is "anti-LE attitude"? The guy is dead and most here are glad about it when not all the facts are known.

 

[Notavictim646]

Point an air gun at me and say it isn't real and see what happens next. Sorry, but I'm not about to just take your word for it. I'm going to drop the hammer on you and worry about everything else later.

I didn't read where he pointed the gun at the officers. Apparently, he made the mistake of thinking he would not be killed for having a BB gun, especially when he informed the officers it was not real. In his mind, He knew it was not real and that he had no ill intent. Otherwise he would have dropped it instantly, don't you think?

 

[indytechnerd]

I didn't read where he pointed the gun at the officers. Apparently, he made the mistake of thinking he would not be killed for having a BB gun, especially when he informed the officers it was not real. In his mind, He knew it was not real and that he had no ill intent. Otherwise he would have dropped it instantly, don't you think?

If the cops are pointing their guns at you and telling you to put it down, perhaps you should, real gun or not.

 

[Notavictim646]

If the cops are pointing their guns at you and telling you to put it down, perhaps you should, real gun or not.

Knowing what he knows now (or moments after he was shot), I am sure he would. I wonder if the others involved would have acted differently if they knew it was a BB gun.

He told the cops it was not real. I wonder if they told him that if he did not drop it they would shoot. Or was it just Bang. Again, there was no indication that the deceased made any aggressive action or pointed the gun.

Based on some of the comments on this thread about this guy "getting what he deserved", maybe, if the officers have the same attitude, they would have shot him even if they believed it was not a real firearm.

 

[in625shooter]

Knowing what he knows now (or moments after he was shot), I am sure he would. I wonder if the others involved would have acted differently if they knew it was a BB gun.

He told the cops it was not real. I wonder if they told him that if he did not drop it they would shoot. Or was it just Bang. Again, there was no indication that the deceased made any aggressive action or pointed the gun.

Based on some of the comments on this thread about this guy "getting what he deserved", maybe, if the officers have the same attitude, they would have shot him even if they believed it was not a real firearm.

The thing is it doesn't matter what you or me or others think and are able to evaluate after the Fact. It was/is what "an Officers reasonable perceptions is at the time". All one needs to inflict deadly force is to keep one safe from death or serious bodily injury. Even someone using a not real firearm (your words) like a pellet gun can still cause serious bodily injury. No different than the Border Patrol being justified when a perp try's to throw a rock at you within close proximity (a reasonable hand thrown distance where a normal person could inflict damage/bodily injury probably no farther than 20 to 25 yards)

 

[jbombelli]

I didn't read where he pointed the gun at the officers. Apparently, he made the mistake of thinking he would not be killed for having a BB gun, especially when he informed the officers it was not real. In his mind, He knew it was not real and that he had no ill intent. Otherwise he would have dropped it instantly, don't you think?

I'm not an officer. He was pointing it at others, who also weren't officers. It wouldn't matter to me WHAT his intent may or may not be. I'd drop him for it.

 

[Arthur Dent]

He was pointing it at others, who also weren't officers.

Claims by witnesses. I'd be interested in seeing the surveillance video.

 

[Robjps]

So not agreeing with the general consensus is "anti-LE attitude"? The guy is dead and most here are glad about it when not all the facts are known.

Not just the guy is dead a woman who ran from the gunshots died as well. It appears asking for facts from the video camera which we know exists is "anti leo" somehow. Which i funny i haven't questioned the officers actions they were likely put in an impossible situation after receiving erroneous information. What i have called into question besides the man who died, is the 911 callers. Their stories are all over the place.

 

[Mark 1911]

Sounds like a good shoot to me. Cop says drop, best listen and live to discuss the details later.

 

[Robjps]

To the people saying he should have just dropped it, you should learn about reaction times and peoples natural reactions.

Your brain will hear the barking and begin to react before it processes the words of something like a verbal command. Imagine you are in the middle of doing something (he was talking on the phone) and someone loudly screams orders at you. The most natural reactions are to turn and face or flee. This puts officers in an impossible situation and the safe thing to do becomes to press the trigger as you do not know the persons intentions.

It's sad and unfortunate.

 

[echoagain]

Based upon what I read, this grown man removed a pellet gun from it's box in the sporting goods area and was horsing around and pointing it at people in the store. As I understand the article, it appeared that he was shot in a different department than where he got the pellet gun, so it was not a matter of just removing an item from the box to determine to look it over and decide if he wanted to buy it (supposedly he was there to buy supplies to make smore's.....probably to deliver them to a homeless shelter or orphanage no doubt). I was not there, but if these things are true, he already did a fine job of putting himself on a short list of candidates for consideration of removal from the gene pool, regardless of what took place once the police arrived.

 

[in625shooter]

To the people saying he should have just dropped it, you should learn about reaction times and peoples natural reactions.

Your brain will hear the barking and begin to react before it processes the words of something like a verbal command. Imagine you are in the middle of doing something (he was talking on the phone) and someone loudly screams orders at you. The most natural reactions are to turn and face or flee. This puts officers in an impossible situation and the safe thing to do becomes to press the trigger as you do not know the persons intentions.

It's sad and unfortunate.

Based upon what I read, this grown man removed a pellet gun from it's box in the sporting goods area and was horsing around and pointing it at people in the store. As I understand the article, it appeared that he was shot in a different department than where he got the pellet gun, so it was not a matter of just removing an item from the box to determine to look it over and decide if he wanted to buy it (supposedly he was there to buy supplies to make smore's.....probably to deliver them to a homeless shelter or orphanage no doubt). I was not there, but if these things are true, he already did a fine job of putting himself on a short list of candidates for consideration of removal from the gene pool, regardless of what took place once the police arrived.

Agree pretty much with this except when/if he turned. My view from a former municipal LEO's point of view is the Officers assessed the situation while challenging the suspect. Yes there is a reactionary time for the brain to respond to the commands (usually a second to react) however the suspects actions could negate that assessment time.
Sorry for the guy but as mentioned don't be stupid in a no stupid zone.

 

[BE Mike]

Stupid is as stupid does. Too bad that the innocent lady shopper died as a result.

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

I want to see the video. I read some comments that the guy was SWATted. Someone yelled "shots fired" on the 911 call. It is possible the LEA was set up by someone who may or may not have a dog in the gun control fight.

 

[indytechnerd]

Surveillance Vid released for this:
Walmart shooting: Surveillance video captures Crawford shooting | www.whio.com

Grand Jury chooses not to indict the officers: Walmart shooting: No indictments against officers in fatal shooting of John Crawford III - Story

After seeing the video, I'm second guessing my first gut reaction.

 

[HoughMade]

I wish it had sound.

 

[T.Lex]

Wow. With that video, I'm not comfortable that was a good shoot. I haven't really followed this story, but geesh. Dude didn't appear menacing.

 

[SteveM4A1]

Wow. With that video, I'm not comfortable that was a good shoot. I haven't really followed this story, but geesh. Dude didn't appear menacing.

Wow is right.

 

[mrjarrell]

Looks like a fairly standard assassination. No gun pointing at anyone, perp on the phone, get him while he's distracted and it's beer thirty. High fives all around.