Manufacturing AOWs?

[neraph]

Ok, please correct me if I am wrong:

My understanding is that to transfer an AOW is a $5 tax stamp, but for me to 'manufacture' one would be the normal $200.

I'm also under the impression that a FFL Type 7 with a Class 2 SOT can manufacture them without paying the $200 tax, but transferring is still a $5 tax stamp for the person buying it.

So, my question is can the FFL manufacturer above take existing firearms and register them as an AOW without paying the tax? This seems to me what Serbu does with the Super Shorty. Of course, that's just a naive guess on my part.

Lastly, is there anyone in Indiana who could do this with AR-15 receivers or Draco pistols?

 

[koveras225]

Ok, please correct me if I am wrong:

My understanding is that to transfer an AOW is a $5 tax stamp, but for me to 'manufacture' one would be the normal $200.

I'm also under the impression that a FFL Type 7 with a Class 2 SOT can manufacture them without paying the $200 tax, but transferring is still a $5 tax stamp for the person buying it.

Correct so far...

So, my question is can the FFL manufacturer above take existing firearms and register them as an AOW without paying the tax? This seems to me what Serbu does with the Super Shorty. Of course, that's just a naive guess on my part.

Yes, AFAIK, an 02 SOT can take an existing firearm and convert it to a Title II configuration without paying the tax (that's what the SOT is for after all). The only issue is that the firearm in question must meet the requirements for becoming whichever Title II configuration they wish to register it as. For an AOW that would mean the original firearm would have to have come from the factory as a 'virgin' receiver, or without a stock.

Lastly, is there anyone in Indiana who could do this with AR-15 receivers or Draco pistols?

Most likely, yes. I wouldn't know who though. I would suggest that unless the extra $195 on the transfer is an issue, that you would better off doing an AR-15 or Draco as an SBR rather than an AOW though. You would get all the benefits of an AOW (which is pretty much a foregrip in this case), but with the additional perk of also being able to attach a stock.

 

[100 bullets]

Ok, please correct me if I am wrong:

My understanding is that to transfer an AOW is a $5 tax stamp, but for me to 'manufacture' one would be the normal $200.

I'm also under the impression that a FFL Type 7 with a Class 2 SOT can manufacture them without paying the $200 tax, but transferring is still a $5 tax stamp for the person buying it.

So, my question is can the FFL manufacturer above take existing firearms and register them as an AOW without paying the tax?

They pay a a fixed tax every year, based on volume of sales, to be able to make the weapons. They are not making them tax free.

 

[IndianaGTI]

And don't forget if you are reonfiguring that a short barrelled shotgun is illegal in Indiana. That is any shotgun with a barrel of less than 18" or an overall length of less than 26".

 

[koveras225]

And don't forget if you are reonfiguring that a short barrelled shotgun is illegal in Indiana. That is any shotgun with a barrel of less than 18" or an overall length of less than 26".

This does not apply to the possession or manufacture of AOWs. AOW 'shotguns' are allowed, as is making an AOW from a pistol-grip 'shotgun' (that has never had a stock attached).

 

[IndianaGTI]

Correct, it does not apply to a gun that has never had a stock attached and was not intended to be fired from the shoulder. It applies to all shotguns, but defines shotguns as a weapon designed to be fired from the shoulder...

 

[IndianaGTI]

It does apply to AOW's though. If someone took a shotgun with a stock and made an AOW with it, the AOW would still be illegal in Indiana.

 

[koveras225]

It does apply to AOW's though. If someone took a shotgun with a stock and made an AOW with it, the AOW would still be illegal in Indiana.

You can't legally make an AOW from a shotgun that ever had a stock attached to it regardless of state law. The definition of a short-barreled shotgun overrides AOW, and anything that had a stock on it at one time or another automatically becomes a SBS regardless of the configuration.

 

[IndianaGTI]

Exactly.

 

[KokomoDave]

Yeah! What you guys said!!

 

[low_lead]

That is the catch with the AOW, sure would be easier to just yank the buttstock off and chop the barrel!

 

[45pro]

so is there anyway to put a foregrip on a draco without paying the $200 tax stamp first??

 

[neraph]

so is there anyway to put a foregrip on a draco without paying the $200 tax stamp first??

I'm supposing you mean a Vertical Foregrip. I think you can get away with even a handstop on a regular foregrip/rail system.

Yeah, sell it to a 'class 2' manufacturer. Have them register it as a AOW. Then buy it back from them on an ATF Form 4 for the $5 transfer plus whatever the manufacturer wants to charge you for the service.

If you were going to 'manufacturer' several of them, it almost makes sense to go get a FFL type 7 and Class 2 SOT (total cost $650) and register them that way rather than 'manufacturing' them on a Form 1 for $200/each.

Heck, if you could get 4 or 5 guys together who wanted them, it would make sense to do this. You could register AR-15 lowers as AOWs this way as well (as long as they have never had a stock attached) or just about any handgun you wanted. Anyone feel like making an Glock AOW?

Hmm...maybe I should open up shop. Could cut down pistol-grip-only shotguns too.

 

[45pro]

I'm supposing you mean a Vertical Foregrip. I think you can get away with even a handstop on a regular foregrip/rail system.

Yeah, sell it to a 'class 2' manufacturer. Have them register it as a AOW. Then buy it back from them on an ATF Form 4 for the $5 transfer plus whatever the manufacturer wants to charge you for the service.

If you were going to 'manufacturer' several of them, it almost makes sense to go get a FFL type 7 and Class 2 SOT (total cost $650) and register them that way rather than 'manufacturing' them on a Form 1 for $200/each.

Heck, if you could get 4 or 5 guys together who wanted them, it would make sense to do this. You could register AR-15 lowers as AOWs this way as well (as long as they have never had a stock attached) or just about any handgun you wanted. Anyone feel like making an Glock AOW?

Hmm...maybe I should open up shop. Could cut down pistol-grip-only shotguns too.

OK, Where can you find a class 2 manufacturer? I wonder if Midwest gun exchange in mishawaka is one.?

 

[CountryBoy19]

I'm supposing you mean a Vertical Foregrip. I think you can get away with even a handstop on a regular foregrip/rail system.

Yeah, sell it to a 'class 2' manufacturer. Have them register it as a AOW. Then buy it back from them on an ATF Form 4 for the $5 transfer plus whatever the manufacturer wants to charge you for the service.

If you were going to 'manufacturer' several of them, it almost makes sense to go get a FFL type 7 and Class 2 SOT (total cost $650) and register them that way rather than 'manufacturing' them on a Form 1 for $200/each.

Heck, if you could get 4 or 5 guys together who wanted them, it would make sense to do this. You could register AR-15 lowers as AOWs this way as well (as long as they have never had a stock attached) or just about any handgun you wanted. Anyone feel like making an Glock AOW?

Hmm...maybe I should open up shop. Could cut down pistol-grip-only shotguns too.

You don't have to sell it to the manufacturer, as a matter of fact, it is a benefit to you if you don't.

If you have a xxx firearm that you want manufactured into an AOW. You can send it directly to the manufacturer. When the manufacturer is done with it it can be transferred directly back to you on a form 4 for $5, even if the manufacturer is out of state. That means you avoid the wait time of the Form 3 and you avoid the transfer fee that your local SOT would charge for the transfer.


This is a "very little" known fact in the NFA world, and I'm sure some of you don't believe me, but do your research and you'll discover it.

This only applies if you owned the firearm before it was manufactured into an NFA weapon.

IIRC, an FFL 07/02 would not just be $650. With an 07/02 you also have to pay ITAR, even if you aren't manufacturing anything that falls under ITAR you have to pay just because you legally "could" manufacture those things. Last I knew ITAR is an additional $2250/year.


ETA, Oh yeah, rep would be much appreciated for that great tip! I'm almost to my third bronze star, help me out guys!!!

 

[45pro]

so i can buy a draco then send it to a class 2 manufacturer to have a vertical foregrip put on it and it would only cost $5 and the cost of a vertical grip?? i am new to this so sorry for all the questions. Also how do i find a class 2 manufacturer in northern indiana?

 

[neraph]

You don't have to sell it to the manufacturer, as a matter of fact, it is a benefit to you if you don't.

If you have a xxx firearm that you want manufactured into an AOW. You can send it directly to the manufacturer. When the manufacturer is done with it it can be transferred directly back to you on a form 4 for $5, even if the manufacturer is out of state. That means you avoid the wait time of the Form 3 and you avoid the transfer fee that your local SOT would charge for the transfer.

That's good news. Although I'm a little annoyed at the ITAR crap.

Additionally, does the manufacturer actually have to configure the weapon as an AOW? I would think not in the case of an AR lower, but a Draco?

 

[neraph]

so i can buy a draco then send it to a class 2 manufacturer to have a vertical foregrip put on it and it would only cost $5 and the cost of a vertical grip?? i am new to this so sorry for all the questions. Also how do i find a class 2 manufacturer in northern indiana?

Well, by what he said, it doesn't need to be in Indiana. You just need to find an FFL 7/02 who would be willing to do the work and you can ship it to them.

 

[45pro]

Well, by what he said, it doesn't need to be in Indiana. You just need to find an FFL 7/02 who would be willing to do the work and you can ship it to them.

are they hard to find or something? i would really rather have it done locally if possible. If i have to ship it i may as well just pay the tax stamp and sbr it now instead of later.

 

[45pro]

hey neraph do u have a draco too? It seems vertical foregrip would make it alot easier to aim. i know you could always hold onto the mag as i have seen people do but it just seems too close together and would make the gun front heavy by not having it held further down.