Marion County prosecutor finds loophole in Indiana’s Red Flag Law

[Trigger Time]

Was that loud enough for those hard of hearing?

No matter the volume or how good the advice is, people always seem to ignore it.
Never fails.

 

[Vigilant]

No matter the volume or how good the advice is, people always seem to ignore it.
Never fails.

I guess I should have said FREEadvice,

 

[edporch]

MAYBE outside Marion County. Inside Indy, you are screwed for 18 months+. Their rule is any firearm that enters the property room must go through ballistic tests to make sure it isnt tied to a crime. Get hit on your motorcycle downtown and they take your pistol for safekeeping while you are sent to the hospital? You wont see that gun again for close to 2 years due to testing backlogs. Luckily some officers will go out of their way to get the gun to next of kin/friends so it doesnt have to go downtown because they understand how stupid it is.

There are even stories of INGO officers trying to help speed up the process by going and talking to the folks responsible. That doesnt even help. Hell, I remember one story where the gun was ready to be released, it just needed to get signed off by the supervisor butit was just sitting. When the officer asked for her to sign it so the INGOer could come pick it up, he was pretty much told to pound sand... it was on her desk and she would get to it when she was ready to do so. Nothing would speed up the process.

Actions speak louder than words.
Law enforcement administrative policy in Marion County is anti 2nd Amendment, or they would correct this policy of theft as standard operating procedure.

 

[drillsgt]

Actions speak louder than words.
Law enforcement administrative policy in Marion County is anti 2nd Amendment, or they would correct this policy of theft as standard operating procedure.

Sounds like someone needs to correct whomever is working in the property room, are these LE types or non-LE staff?

 

[Trigger Time]

I guess I should have said FREEadvice,

"You must spread reputation around before giving it to Vigilant again"
Damn it

 

[Denny347]

Sounds like someone needs to correct whomever is working in the property room, are these LE types or non-LE staff?

VERY low paid civilian employees

 

[edporch]

Sounds like someone needs to correct whomever is working in the property room, are these LE types or non-LE staff?

It's my understanding that this has been a long time ongoing policy.

I have no problem with them wanting to test each firearm, but it needs to be done in a prompt manner, and the firearm returned to the owner in the same condition as when it was taken.

There needs to be a law that requires a time limit on testing and returning the firearm.
Either get it done promptly, or forfeit the chance to test it.

The priority must ALWAYS be the rights of innocent people having their firearms promptly returned.

 

[bwframe]

Apparently there needs to be state law that dictates to counties and municipalities what they can and cannot do on confiscation and holding of firearms?

 

[GIJEW]

I have no problem with them wanting to test each firearm, but it needs to be done in a prompt manner, and the firearm returned to the owner in the same condition as when it was taken.

.

If they don't have reasonable cause--like, they got the firearm at the scene of an accident from someone with a LTCH, they have no basis for suspicion and no reason to test.

 

[Cameramonkey]

VERY low paid civilian employees

And from the sound of it, cranky too. Reminds me of the old ladies that used to occupy the license branches. Slow, cranky, and if you made them angry they would just move slower.

If they don't have reasonable cause--like, they got the firearm at the scene of an accident from someone with a LTCH, they have no basis for suspicion and no reason to test.

I agree. Too bad nobody with deep enough pockets has taken them to task in court yet.

 

[JettaKnight]

Yeah, they are basically considered "guilty" right away.

Say there's a hearing within 14 days, and it's judged the person who had their firearms swiped was found to be of sound mind.
Their firearms would be promptly returned that day?
If not, the law should specify that they should be.

Why do I think in reality it would be a months, years or never deal, where innocent people have their property stolen by the government without any compensation?

That's actually in the law. IIRC, it's within five days.

That might stop a person from buying from an FFL (assuming a supposed mentally ill person would answer the questions honestly). But how does that keep him/her from borrowing a gun from a sympathetic family member or buy one from the INGO classifieds?

I guess my point is people intent on doing evil will find a way. I don’t think there’s anything this guy could instruct the legislature to codify would stop them.

At a certain point it just becomes another pointless law with diminishing returns.

From what I can tell, the shooter lied on the F4473, carried the handgun illegally, and shot someone (still illegal, I think).

 

[Shadow01]

This was a legislative created issue. If the state is not in position to immediately determine the mental state of the accused, then there is really no solution that doesn’t violate rights.

 

[brotherbill3]

Guy R. Will be on hammer and nigel at 530 to discuss this on WIBC

 

[indykid]

If every firearm confiscated has to be test fired, what about a collector who has some museum quality firearms that are one of the few remaining as unfired? Could he sue the county for destroying the value?

"You must spread reputation around before giving it to Vigilant again"
Damn it

Rep'd as soon as I read it.

 

[edporch]

That's actually in the law. IIRC, it's within five days.

Is this the law you speak of?
I don't see a 5 day requirement.

Additionally, does anybody have any knowledge of actual cases in Marion County where a person was found to not be a danger and they had their firearms promptly returned to them?

https://statecodesfiles.justia.com/indiana/2014/title-35/article-47/chapter-14/chapter-14.pdf

 

[KellyinAvon]

Guy R. Will be on hammer and nigel at 530 to discuss this on WIBC

Thanks for the info Bill. If Fox 59 had done this in the first place...

 

[JettaKnight]

Is this the law you speak of?
I don't see a 5 day requirement.

Additionally, does anybody have any knowledge of actual cases in Marion County where a person was found to not be a danger and they had their firearms promptly returned to them?

https://statecodesfiles.justia.com/indiana/2014/title-35/article-47/chapter-14/chapter-14.pdf

Nope.


Go look up the ISP's presentation on Jake Laird's Law. I don't feel like linking it here for the fifth time.

 

[Denny347]

Is this the law you speak of?
I don't see a 5 day requirement.

Additionally, does anybody have any knowledge of actual cases in Marion County where a person was found to not be a danger and they had their firearms promptly returned to them?

https://statecodesfiles.justia.com/indiana/2014/title-35/article-47/chapter-14/chapter-14.pdf

I know detectives in our firearms unit told me it's quite common. That office is responsible for following up with these cases after we Immediate Detention the gun owners.

 

[Scuba591]

Say there's a hearing within 14 days, and it's judged the person who had their firearms swiped was found to be of sound mind.
Their firearms would be promptly returned that day?
If not, the law should specify that they should be.

Why do I think in reality it would be a months, years or never deal, where innocent people have their property stolen by the government without any compensation?

I've a friend who had his pistol stolen, then recovered from the thief from the police. No charges pressed, no need to keep pistol for evidence. He is on month 3 waiting for the 1 person who handles property returns to set up an appt. Multiple phone calls, a few times going in person... It seems like a long time to wait for the State to get a persons property back to them.

 

[drillsgt]

I know detectives in our firearms unit told me it's quite common. That office is responsible for following up these cases up after we Immediate Detention the gun owners.

What's the issue with a lot of those then, is it just boiling down to simple CYA by the officers at the time?