Mass shooters and Body Armor

[Vigilant]

Page change post.

 

[OurDee]

The .22LR with old style vest from 30+ years ago was like getting smacked with a ball peen hammer. I've only heard that a .44 magnum is like taking a sledge hammer to the chest. No desire to find out.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Must be why this one is only a single shot. There are YouTube videos of people shooting this gun, it goes about as well as you'd expect. May be the handgun answer to body armor, though.

There is a .600 NE revolver. Weighs 13+ lbs.

The Pfeifer-Zeliska: The Revolver in .600 Nitro Express (VIDEO) - Guns.com

 

[hoosierdaddy1976]

There is a .600 NE revolver. Weighs 13+ lbs.

The Pfeifer-Zeliska: The Revolver in .600 Nitro Express (VIDEO) - Guns.com

Yep, heavy enough to not be as incredibly brutal to fire. Of course, at a cost of $17,000, it's a bit beyond my edc budget.

 

[IndyTom]

Bears are serious poker players man. Serious.

Reminds me of that tune...

You've got to know when to hold 'em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away and
Know when to play dead.

 

[wethepeople]

I am not really up on the ballistic vests but I have done some testing on plate steel. At 100 yards with 5.56 fmj 55 grain against 1/4" AR400 steel just dented it. Hit same plate same distance with 5.56 62 grain steel core penetrator it put a laser cut hole through it. literally looked like a laser cut the hole.
Same distance with 1/2" AR400 plate. The penetrator left a mark but thats it. The 55 fmj only discolored it from the lead.
AR400 steel for those who don't know is a industrial used material for abrasion resistance. I have been told its a notch below armor plating.

God Bless America & God Bless her Fighting Men & Women

 

[bangbox]

My Mosin Nagant will penetrate 13" of white oak on ny back stop with surplus ammo. I'm sure someone with body armour would feel the hell out of that.

 

[Revolverteer]

I have a friend, who has a friend that wanted his "bulletproof" vest (no trama plate) tested to see what handgun cartridges it could withstand.
My friend brought it over to my acreage and we strapped it around a heavy gauge, plastic, five gallon bucket filled with water.
We shot it with just about every commonly encountered handgun cartridge there is. We used, .22LR, .22 mag, .25acp, .32acp, .32 long, 9mm, .45acp, .45 Colt, .38 special, .357 mag, .44 mag and none of them penetrated the vest nor even made a mark on it. (Although
the .357 and .44 mag left good sized dents in the plastic bucket). Then I brought out my CZ52 pistol firing 7.62x25 Tokarev, full metal copper jacket, military surplus bullets. The 7.62x25 Tokarev cartridge is almost ballistically and dimentionally identical to the old Luger and Broomhandle mauser 7.63 cartridge, also frequently called .30 Luger or .30 Mauser. In spite of frequent and widespread misinformation incorrectly stating the 7.62x25 Tokarev cartridge is more powerful than the old 7.63 Mauser cartridge and incorrect information saying it should not be used in Lugers and Broomhandles, the velocities and pressures are almost idential. The 7.63 Mauser cartridge has almost identically the same velocity and pressure of the Tokarev 7.62x25. Thus it is safe to shoot in Lugers and Broomhandles. Also there is no Czech 7.62x25 nor Russian 7.62x25 that is loaded hotter for machine guns. No country would make cartridges that were identical for machine guns and pistols that could get mixed up and the hotter ones blow up their soldier's pistols. All this misinformation is widely spread old wives tales. Learn the real truth about all that at this link here....... https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/when-will-it-blow-up.739698/

But I digress.......

Back to the vest test. I shot the vest with my CZ52 pistol's 7.62x25 cartridge and not only did it penetrate the front layer of the vest, it also went through the thick gauge plastic bucket, through the water, through the other side of the plastic bucket and went halfway through the rear of the vest before stopping and being trapped in the layers of the rear of the vest. I shot it several more times with the CZ52 and it did the same thing each time. The 7.62x25 Tokarev pistol cartridge's projectile went through that vest like a hot knife through butter. If anyone had been wearing it while being hit with a 7.62x25 Tokarev pistol cartridge, it would have afforded them no protection at all.

 

[Kutnupe14]

If I had to take a guess, these mass shooters with body armor wear it more because it's "tacti-cool" rather than actual function.

 

[GrinderCB]

In my OH concealed carry class they taught that we should go for body shots unless we had reason to believe that the attacker was wearing body armor, and only then to go for a head shot. Nothing was specifically taught about active shooters but I would imagine the same applies. The torso is just that much easier a target to hit under stress.

 

[Ark]

This is why I EDC a flamethrower. You know those reflective metal sleeves that Hot Pockets come with, so it cooks better?

Yeah. That's your steel plates.

 

[Delta Elite]

The key word in gunfight is "fight." If you walk into the cage head hunting your opponent is going to make short work if you. Pelvic bowl first, force him to deal with you, take away his mobility, then go in for the face, not the head; the head has evolved to protect itself and is frequently successful at doing so, to stop an evil man you have to slow him down enough to make face shots.

 

[CoastieGM]

The last two mass shooters were wearing body armor.
How traumatic is a hit to a ballistic vest; would it hurt enough to stun the shooter for a second or two?
Or should we just try for head shots only?

If you have experience with being hit while wearing armor, please share.

I managed to catch an up-close .357 mag in the 1980's wearing Second Chance soft body armor (don't recall what level) with a K30 steel trauma plate. The round partially caught the edge of the K30.

I was down for the count. Winded, stunned & seeing stars. The entire left side of my upper torso and neck was temporarily incapacitated. Could barely hold my head up. Dislocated several left ribs from the left side of the sternum to varying degrees. As I've aged (and lost muscle mass), I recently started physical therapy 30+ years later to get those dang connections realigned properly this time.

I've thought about this topic a lot related to a modern-day mass shooter. Today's body armor performs amazingly and is quite affordable. I'd go for a lower abdomen / pelvic shot if I noticed any hint of tacti-cool. I'm also thinking that a lower body shot would also greatly reduce the possibility of a pass-through or missed shot hitting innocents downrange.