Minimum Wage increase?

[Roadie]

Does the conversation change when we realize we are talking about around 2% of the hourly paid workforce in the US?

Also, a National Min Wage can NEVER be "fair" to all. Not when you have the cost of a small apartment in NYC at $2500/month, and a similar apartment in Podunk Indiana at $400/month.

 

[MisterChester]

What is the constitutional authority that allows the federal government to prescribe minimum wages? If it is so beneficial to the country, why don't we enact an amendment and establish it as a protected right?

Taxes. It's in the government's interest to have a minimum wage.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Does the conversation change when we realize we are talking about around 2% of the hourly paid workforce in the US?

Setting a floor impacts more than just those who are still working at that level.

 

[Vigilant]

“No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country." “By living wages, I mean more than a bare subsistence level. I mean the wages of decent living.”

Roosevelt

In brief, social contract, etc.

You are out of your ever lovin mind, and obviously work for someone else, and obviously always will! If you have to make your "living" from a McDonalds counter boy paycheck, YOU are wrong, NOT the minimum wage!

 

[Vigilant]

2.13 minimum.
Doesn't mean ALL of them make that.
Maybe, some pay $8 per hour, plus tips. Maybe more. Maybe less.
What business is it of anyone to determine what the wage should be except the employee, the employer, and in a way.... the customer.

That figure is also unless they don't make enough in tips to be at minimum wage. If they don't, the employer has to cough up the rest to get them to minimum for the hours they worked! About the first time that happens, you fire that employee because they truly do suck!

 

[Vigilant]

I've said it before, and here it is again, all of my 3 employees know, if they raise the minimum wage in Indiana, they have to decide among themselves which one goes! I REFUSE to pay more than a job is worth, and with all the added "benefits" an owner has to pay, it isn't financially feasible to me to keep all three. One guy has to go, none of them put in the hours I do, nor do they assume any of the risk, so F-(?! Anyone, and I mean ANYONE, who feels that I should pay more just because I own the business! Some weeks they make more than me.

 

[Dolton916]

Also keep in mind the domino effect, if the world decides flipping burgers is worth $15 dollars an hour, in Indiana that's a approximate round a 107% raise...

Now if my guys (and their union) decide they deserve the same increase, (after all they're highly skilled trained professionals with substantial personal and financial investments in their careers), who are now commanding 4 to 5 times minumum wage, that puts them at $60, to $75 an hour... I cant afford that with my current cost structure. I will have to raise my clients costs.

And they will pass it on as well.

 

[MisterChester]

I've said it before, and here it is again, all of my 3 employees know, if they raise the minimum wage in Indiana, they have to decide among themselves which one goes! I REFUSE to pay more than a job is worth, and with all the added "benefits" an owner has to pay, it isn't financially feasible to me to keep all three. One guy has to go, none of them put in the hours I do, nor do they assume any of the risk, so F-(?! Anyone, and I mean ANYONE, who feels that I should pay more just because I own the business! Some weeks they make more than me.

employees aren't entitled to benefits. They are only entitled the money they earned.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Also keep in mind the domino effect, if the world decides flipping burgers is worth $15 dollars an hour, in Indiana that's a approximate round a 107% raise...

Now if my guys (and their union) decide they deserve the same increase, (after all they're highly skilled trained professionals with substantial personal and financial investments in their careers), who are now commanding 4 to 5 times minumum wage, that puts them at $60, to $75 an hour... I cant afford that with my current cost structure. I will have to raise my clients costs.

And they will pass it on as well.

Doesn't work like that and never has. The rate diminishes as it climbs the wage scale and is not a 1:1.

Seems like most of INGO should be welcoming in illegal aliens. They are willing to work much cheaper, that's "what the job is worth", and apparently low wages don't harm an overall economy if you aren't the one working that job. Why are we so upset over their presence then? We should be begging them to come. Political borders are a hindrance to free market exchange of labor, and what business is it of yours if a company wants to contract with 3rd world labor instead of you?

 

[Dolton916]

I'll have to get your number, so you can negotiate my next contract. This is becoming a touchstone issue with the unions in Chicago and most other large citys.

And its ENTIRELY my business if they're hiring illegal immigrants to work here. If the work is moved offshore that's fine. if the workers are here legally and can be taught they have skills that can command more money fine.

As to harming the economy with low wages, NO they in themselves DO NOT harm the economy. Low wages allow small margin unskilled labor businesses to begin and exist. You understand for example that the average grocery store exists a a margin of less than two percent, wait until the bag boys and the kid who brings in the carts makes $15 dollars an hour.

I have a apprentice program inhouse and currently have 3 workers in those positions. It's hard dirty work with outside conditions (Good or Bad) long days and 24/7 required availability. as soon as the Target has to pay $15 to get a kid to stand around in a red shirt and BS with the other kids, It's going to be tough to get them into my program for the same $15, so I'll have to raise my pay schedule.

Minimum wage is NOT the problem, The problem stems from people who have no interest in bettering themselves and then feel that their ENTRY LEVEL position should pay more.

The free market as far as labor goes, only improves the lives of the stupid, lazy and unmotivated.

America used to be about giving a handhold to self improvement, now it's handout to allow mediocrity....

The struggle to reach barely adequate.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

And its ENTIRELY my business if they're hiring illegal immigrants to work here. If the work is moved offshore that's fine. if the workers are here legally and can be taught they have skills that can command more money fine.

That's fixable with a pen stroke. Just give visas at the border to anyone who asks for one. Done.

I have a apprentice program inhouse and currently have 3 workers in those positions. It's hard dirty work with outside conditions (Good or Bad) long days and 24/7 required availability. as soon as the Target has to pay $15 to get a kid to stand around in a red shirt and BS with the other kids, It's going to be tough to get them into my program for the same $15, so I'll have to raise my pay schedule.

I'm not disputing wages will rise for those who aren't making minimum wage. That's part of the POINT of a minimum wage. What I disputed is its a one for one ratio as you climb the scale. A 30% increase in minimum wage does not result in a 30% pay raise for those making double the minimum wage today.

The free market as far as labor goes, only improves the lives of the stupid, lazy and unmotivated.

How do you figure that?

 

[MisterChester]

Low wages don't hurt the economy? I wouldn't mind having what you're on...

If wages are too low, that's less income workers can spend. Less money being spent means lower revenues. Low revenues means cuts. Cuts usually mean more people on the unemployment line. Wages shouldn't be too low or too high, they should be at an equilibrium. Right now it's an employer's market so they can get away with crap wages. When it's an employee's market, employers have to compete with others for workers, so wages tend to be higher.

 

[nakinate]

I have never made minimum wage. Even when I got my first job at 14 years old. If you stay with a company more than 6 months then minimum wage shouldn't be an issue for you, especially if you're working full time.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I have never made minimum wage. Even when I got my first job at 14 years old. If you stay with a company more than 6 months then minimum wage shouldn't be an issue for you, especially if you're working full time.

I have. And less.

 

[Thor]

Low wages don't hurt the economy? I wouldn't mind having what you're on...

Making everyone else pay more so the bottom illiterate no skills non workers can make more helps the economy? I don't want what you're on. Next up we should start paying people to do nothing and that will be a good thing...

 

[MisterChester]

Making everyone else pay more so the bottom illiterate no skills non workers can make more helps the economy? I don't want what you're on. Next up we should start paying people to do nothing and that will be a good thing...

I didn't say they had to pay more than the value of the job, just saying if wages are too low then everyone loses.

 

[Twangbanger]

...The fairy tale being told is that the employer and the employee are on equal footing to negotiate the contract...

Who's saying that, in this thread? Your fallacy is that you apparently believe the negotiation has to be economically equal, in order to be fair. Nothing is ever equal, economically, nor should it be. And I don't think sane people want the government empowered to make it so.

...Seems like most of INGO should be welcoming in illegal aliens. They are willing to work much cheaper, that's "what the job is worth", and apparently low wages don't harm an overall economy if you aren't the one working that job. Why are we so upset over their presence then? We should be begging them to come. Political borders are a hindrance to free market exchange of labor, and what business is it of yours if a company wants to contract with 3rd world labor instead of you?...

You attempted to invalidate the comparison with minor sex laws by claiming that exploitation of children was not the main reason for those laws - it's an issue of wage protection for adults. I disagree with that, but now you're trying to do the same thing with immigration law. There are important reasons for controlling immigration which have nothing to do with wage protection (immigrants in large numbers are not culturally well-assimilated and end up placing large demands on public services, straining public budgets and raising tax burdens, for example). Just because these issues all boil down to a question of wage protection to you, doesn't mean everyone else looks at them through the same leftist filter.

If you want to defend the government's ability to intrude upon voluntary (not equal, _Voluntary_) interactions between consenting adults for purposes of wage protection, own that position. But you're the only one here making arguments for government intrusion purely for purposes of economic equality. Don't try to disingenuously drag everyone else into that position with you, just because they believe working 11 year-olds in a factory is wrong or immigration shouldn't be unlimited.

 

[Vigilant]

employees aren't entitled to benefits. They are only entitled the money they earned.

By "benefits", I mean workers comp, social insecurity, you know, the extras that come with the wage that double as the wage doubles!

 

[BigShow]

Here is my thoughts on this. If minimum wage goes up, the cost of living goes up to compensate. I will give an example, at the local store I stop at on my way to work a bag of buns cost $1.59 with the workers making $8.10 an hour. Now all of a sudden the workers receive a $6.90 an hour raise the owner will raise the price of said buns to compensate paying the worker more. So now my cost of living just went up, and the worker that was just getting by on $8.10 an hour will just get by on $15 an hour. Then those of us making better than $8.10 an hour and do not receive the $6.90 an hour raise lost money to the cost of living. So yes if minimum wage goes up, I expect the same wage increase to compensate for the cost of living going up. A 1 to 1 wage increase. As was already stated in this thread, if it cost a business owner more he will just pass that cost off on the customer.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Here is my thoughts on this. If minimum wage goes up, the cost of living goes up to compensate. I will give an example, at the local store I stop at on my way to work a bag of buns cost $1.59 with the workers making $8.10 an hour. Now all of a sudden the workers receive a $6.90 an hour raise the owner will raise the price of said buns to compensate paying the worker more. So now my cost of living just went up, and the worker that was just getting by on $8.10 an hour will just get by on $15 an hour. Then those of us making better than $8.10 an hour and do not receive the $6.90 an hour raise lost money to the cost of living. So yes if minimum wage goes up, I expect the same wage increase to compensate for the cost of living going up. A 1 to 1 wage increase. As was already stated in this thread, if it cost a business owner more he will just pass that cost off on the customer.

Ah, but the question is, should you make $6.90 more per hour or 85% of your current salary more?

No, I'm not asking that. Your post is almost verbatim the remainder of the argument my work partner made against min.wage. Once all the prices all over town increase, the poor guy that this is supposed to help is actually making less per hour than when he started, as compared by purchasing power.