More ammo is better?

[NateIU10]

Yeah, but you also don't get that Tacticool look of having a couple dozen mag carries on your belt either.

True true. When I OC I always make sure to have that extra mag on my belt So 11 more of those I'd be lookin awesome!

 

[techres]

Maybe some have missed the part of the point where he says more or less that he studied what actually happens despite good training. I.E. we all say that we do not know exactly how we will react, yada yada - well he seems to have done so.

In other words, you can practice your mag changes all day, but when you are in a situation that is surprisingly fast and terrifically violent your brain does not work so good and having more ammo can offset your brain's malfunction.

I know that in the stress of competition when my carefully walked through plan of how I plan to do the string falls through with a miss and then the stress of time and the potential ribbing of Rhino get me a bit off my game and then, and then, and then.... suddenly I am taking a second to realize why my slide is locked back. How much moreso in a real combat situation where my life is at risk and my body is suffering from all those neat chemicals it introduces, etc.

I think this article is wisely prefaced by the saying that LTCH situations are different from others typically, and as a result they have a different effect on the defender. And as a result, they may require a different choice of carry.

Food for serious though.

 

[ATM]

Ooh! Gangup on the 1911 guys!

Only 1 more year till the BIG birthday cake!

 

[jedi]

Look at this little gem of a video I found.
I was looking for a "more is better (in ammo) video" and ran into this.

The answer is not more is better but rifle BEATs handgun!
Guess I should just start carrying my AK where ever I go.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IHQqW8zOSk

 

[techres]

Look at this little gem of a video I found.
I was looking for a "more is better (in ammo) video" and ran into this.

The answer is not more is better but rifle BEATs handgun!
Guess I should just start carrying my AK where ever I go.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IHQqW8zOSk

If I remember right, a CCW holder engaged the guy with a .45 while the BG was walking over to his pickup truck. The 45 made at least one hit but the BG was wearing body armor. The CCW holder died in the return fire from the AK.

The good guys do not always win.

More info here:

CHL Holder Killed During Attempt To Stop Mass Shooting

Before fleeing, Arroyo exchanged gunfire with Mark Alan Wilson, 52, who lived near the courthouse.

Wilson had intervened after Arroyo killed his wife and began shooting his adult son, witnesses said. Smith County Sheriff J.B. Smith said deputies on the scene credited Wilson with saving the life of David Hernandez Arroyo Jr., 23.

"They traded shots, missing each other, and then the gunman hit Wilson and Wilson went down," Tyler Morning Telegraph publisher Nelson Clyde III said in today's editions of the newspaper.

Clyde watched the shooting from a nearby restaurant.

"The gunman walked up to Wilson and shot him while he was on the ground," Clyde said. "I couldn't believe what I was seeing. It was sickening."

A former business associate described Wilson as a gun enthusiast dedicated to the idea of self-defense.

Scott Lieberman, who was an investor in a shooting range once owned by Wilson, said Wilson had a concealed weapon permit and always carried a Colt .45-caliber handgun and was a passionate advocate of the Second Amendment right to bear arms.

"As sick as this sounds, I think he thought his whole life was geared into getting into this kind of defensive gun fight," Lieberman said. "Clearly, I think it was his destiny."

BTW: the media did not give this sheepdog the credit he was due.

 

[ATM]

...BTW: the media did not give this sheepdog the credit he was due.

credit for the sheepdog.

(will return to rep techres within 24 hrs.)

 

[Joe Williams]

Look at this little gem of a video I found.
I was looking for a "more is better (in ammo) video" and ran into this.

The answer is not more is better but rifle BEATs handgun!
Guess I should just start carrying my AK where ever I go.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IHQqW8zOSk

Rifle doesn't always beat handgun.

For example, many moons ago, a USAF Security policeman on bike patrol engaged an "assault rifle" armed BG from 70 yards away with his M9. SP won the gun fight, and saved a bunch of lives.

Now, I'm not saying a handgun is the preferred tool in such a confrontation, but it's likely to be what we have if we're ever out and about minding our own business and SHTF. The tools just need to be used to best advantage. In that video, for example, the cops just kept running out the chokepoint of a door into withering fire. VERY courageous, but not smart, and not a high percentage move. Why not engage from a second or third story window, which gives you better visibility and a better field of fire, while keeping you behind cover, and with a window sill that gives you a rest for the long range engagement with a handgun? I know I used to routinely engage man sized targets at 100 yards with a Taurus PT99. It was just for bragging rights with my friends, but it can be done fairly easily with practice.

Practice I haven't engaged in for quite some time. Gonna have to find out if I can still do it

 

[bwframe]

For all you 1911 guys, that means practice mag changes.

Funny, but oh so true.
Those of us who choose to "limit ourselves ", with a 1911, MUST practice mag changes. The mag change needs to come as natural as drawing your gun and ALWAYS happens while moving.

 

[shooter521]

The mag change ... ALWAYS happens while moving.

Care to elaborate?

 

[james e]

mags

this was a very good read.im ferly new with carry a handgun.but i like the idea of having more amo in my gun.

 

[jeremy]

Funny, but oh so true.
Those of us who choose to "limit ourselves ", with a 1911, MUST practice mag changes. The mag change needs to come as natural as drawing your gun and ALWAYS happens while moving.

Everyone should practice mag changes regardless whether it is a 1911 or not.

 

[shooter521]

Here's an instance of the default reaction Gabe is talking about (shooting the badguy to the ground) from a recent officer-involved shooting. Posted to another list I'm on, but the poster is a member here; I'll let him chime in if he wants.
_________________________________

Our GIRLS tagged one last night. BG charged her with a 13" butcher knife. She put 5 rds in him at 16 feet. Didnt drop until he was within 5 feet. 1 knee, 1 hip, 1 forearm and 2 center mass with 3 misses. Her partner let 1 rd go but she missed. Im still up here at work, processing the scene and all the evidence.
...

After the autopsy, it was found he had 2 center mass, left and right femoral hip shots and the right knee. The forearm was a through and through into one of the hip shots.
Spoke with the girls today, they are doing fine.
_________________________________

Gun was a GLOCK 23; ammo was Speer Gold Dot. The officer in question fired 8 rounds at extremely close range and in a very short span of time. If she'd had a 1911, she'd have been at slide lock when the BG collapsed at her feet. If she'd had a J-Frame or P3AT, she'd have been f*cked.

 

[jeremy]

If high round counts were really needed you would see 200 round hunting rifles people. Learn a little about anatomy. Practice what you learned about anatomy as concerned to stopping your target. Bear or person you don't really need 15 rounds to stop them. Hunters do it all the time with 1-2 shots. Why can't you? When I was a soldier we had a saying, I know some of you have heard it before this, 2 to chest 1 to the head works every time.

 

[Pami]

The mag change ... ALWAYS happens while moving.

Care to elaborate?

If you're not shooting, you should be moving. If you need to change mags, you should be moving while you're changing them. If you're clearing a malfunction, you should be moving. There is no reason you should present a clear, stationary target to a BG while you're changing mags or clearing malfunctions. I suppose the only exception to the moving rule would be if you're behind sufficient cover (not concealment).

 

[shooter521]

Hunters do it all the time with 1-2 shots.

Hunters also have the luxury of taking their time and picking their shots carefully, and using a sufficiently powerful rifle or shotgun caliber to maximize their chances of a one-shot kill. And in most cases, the animals aren't all up in the hunter's business trying to kill him at the same time.

Apples and oranges.

2 to chest 1 to the head works every time.

I've got a better one that I picked up in my training... nothing hand-held works every time..

 

[Scutter01]

And in most cases, the animals aren't all up in the hunter's business trying to kill him at the same time.

Unless you're this guy, getting the crap beaten out of him by his target.
Wonder if he was ever able to show his face in the lodge again.

YouTube - deer attacks hunter

 

[shooter521]

I suppose the only exception to the moving rule would be if you're behind sufficient cover (not concealment).

Exactly, and that's what threw me about Burl's "ALWAYS" comment. I was thinking of guys in IDPA/USPSA breaking "cover" and reloading while moving to the next shooting box, rather than reloading while still behind cover before moving like I have been taught to do. Reloading while moving from no cover TO cover, OTOH, strikes me as a good idea.

 

[jeremy]

Oh BS. I have shot and been shot at on numerous occasions in countries abroad and very rarely did we utilize shoot the SOB till the bolt locks. It should not take more than 2-4 shots to stop any person in a hostile the BG is shooting at me situation. IF you slide lock your pistol on one bad guy want about his friends and buddies. You always have to count on more than one assailant no matter where something starts at.

That is just poor training. Shot placement, round count, and speed should be something that you have practiced so much at the range that when the crap drops in the pot it is a natural skill.

 

[shooter521]

It should not take more than 2-4 shots to stop any person in a hostile the BG is shooting at me situation.

It "should not" but sometimes it does. Do we train to shoot until the threat is eliminated, or until the threat "should" be stopped? And what about misses? You gonna tell me ALL the shots you ever fired in anger connected with your intended target?

IF you slide lock your pistol on one bad guy want about his friends and buddies.

First, nobody is advocating shooting to slide lock "just because."

Second - if you carry a 5-shot snubby, even shooting just the four rounds that you believe it "should take" to stop a badguy will leave the gun virtually empty. THAT is one of the points Gabe was trying to make in his Email, IMO. All things being equal, carrying more rounds is better than carrying fewer – is that really such a radical concept?

 

[bwframe]

If you're not shooting, you should be moving. If you need to change mags, you should be moving while you're changing them. If you're clearing a malfunction, you should be moving. There is no reason you should present a clear, stationary target to a BG while you're changing mags or clearing malfunctions. I suppose the only exception to the moving rule would be if you're behind sufficient cover (not concealment).

Thank you Pami. Explained my thoughts very well.

Exactly, and that's what threw me about Burl's "ALWAYS" comment.

I should have elaborated in the absence of cover or while getting to it. The emphasis that I was also trying to get across is that mag change practice must always be practiced while moving.