More ammo is better?

[U.S. Patriot]

Well, if you can't hit your target you would need more chances to get lucky, I suppose.

Does reduced capacity improve one's marksmanship out of dire necessity in some magical, wishful way?

Maybe I'm missing your point.

Honestly if you can not defend yourself with 12 rounds, then you need not to carry in my opinion. Also like I said if you are facing two people within 8-12 feet both having guns, you better be Mr. quick draw or hope they can not shoot worth a damn. This is not the movies, and the average Joe can not take on 5-6 people at the same time. There are so many factors that play into each situation. I'm not saying not to carry an extra mag, or not to buy a gun for the extra capacity. I'm saying that do not choose a gun just based on, wow I can get 20 round mags. Or that gun has a lower capacity, so I do not want it. Capacity is just one factor, among many to consider.

 

[ATM]

Honestly if you can not defend yourself with 12 rounds, then you need not to carry in my opinion.


So 12 is the number of rounds you have determined a person must be able to defend themself and their loved ones with (in every conceivable scenario) to need to carry? We might pass that test with plenty of extra rounds left over for the range in most situations... but not all.

Also like I said if you are facing two people within 8-12 feet both having guns, you better be Mr. quick draw or hope they can not shoot worth a damn. This is not the movies, and the average Joe can not take on 5-6 people at the same time.

So admit defeat, swallow hard and take our murder like men? Nope.
(And that makes for a horrible movie.)

There are so many factors that play into each situation. I'm not saying not to carry an extra mag, or not to buy a gun for the extra capacity. I'm saying that do not choose a gun just based on, wow I can get 20 round mags. Or that gun has a lower capacity, so I do not want it. Capacity is just one factor, among many to consider.

Agreed, capacity is just one factor in choosing a gun. But it's up there pretty high in my book somewhere beneath reliability but above color.
The factors involved in the situation that would warrant using that gun are unknown so I'll take every advantage I can get.

I didn't respond to this in your other post but I'm on a roll.

Now LE, and the Military is a different story. They have a much better need for capacity.

Because LE and military usually operate alone as individuals, whereas the average citizen is part of a team or squad... ??

Sorry, I kinda inflated these few points but I really don't think we're at odds on the overall picture.

Just my , as always.

 

[holejack1]

The author doesn't seem to like handguns at all. Guess he's a rifle man.
I though it funny he was calling the .45 ACP an 11mm.

 

[Agent 007]

.

 

[Hoosier8]

I think this is a training issue. A trainer that uses this "shoot the BG to the ground" model is going to suggest larger capacity semi-autos. A point shooting trainer is going to appeal to cases of people in real gun fights reporting they didn't use their sights. The two to the chest one to the head guys are going to reference the FBI study and others that say the majority of defensive situations will require only 2-3 shots. Statistics can be skewed or omitted. So, to answer your question, I do not want to rely on the number of bullets I have to compensate for the added stress of a real encounter. I want to practice keeping a cool head under stress. I want my training to be as reality based as possible.

Like basically every area of life there are different schools of thought. No matter where one stands it is vital to be well rounded and have the ability to admit the weaknesses of your stance. If you have chosen a medium caliber just so you can have 17 rounds available before a reload that's great. Just don't pretend you haven't sacrificed some effectiveness for the sake of capacity. If you are a proponent of point shooting that fine. Just don't pretend you haven't sacrifice some effective range for the sake of speed. For us low capacity, accuracy, two to the chest one to the head guys we need to not be fooled into thinking will never need more the 3 shots. We have sacrificed capacity for a list of possible reasons.

It should be clear that there are no easy answers. No school of thought it is clearly best. We should all be careful that when touting a particular philosophy that we not blind ourselves to it's particular shortcomings or the strengths of others.

Good points. Point 3 of the article describes the more real world situation as opposed to our armchair discussion. Just answer this question.

If you are the most cool headed, best trained, never miss, movie style, gunslinger out there, will you be better off with 7 or 17 rounds to chamber in any given situation? I think the answer is obvious and it is the point the article tries to make.

 

[Sailor]

Honestly if you can not defend yourself with 12 rounds, then you need not to carry in my opinion. Also like I said if you are facing two people within 8-12 feet both having guns, you better be Mr. quick draw or hope they can not shoot worth a damn. This is not the movies, and the average Joe can not take on 5-6 people at the same time. There are so many factors that play into each situation. I'm not saying not to carry an extra mag, or not to buy a gun for the extra capacity. I'm saying that do not choose a gun just based on, wow I can get 20 round mags. Or that gun has a lower capacity, so I do not want it. Capacity is just one factor, among many to consider.

I plan for an active shooter at my kids school or shopping areas. 12 rounds does not fit in that plan.

 

[ashby koss]

As old as this thread is it seems to be never ending question.

high capacity vs accuracy.

what if your more accurate with a 1911 45 than a 9mm glock. It tilts the tables and now in 2020 with more “multiple assailants” becoming more common. Also more wildlife depending where you live, what say you?

I estimate that I’m about 10-15% more accuracy with a 1911 45 than a Glock 9mm. So even with hit rates during incident of say 25% vs 40% high capacity seems to dictate a win, despite the accuracy argument.

 

[ATM]

I remember the great sammich drought of 2009.


Many fine arguments such as this were abandoned, just left to wither on the vine.














Of course, I still won.

 

[churchmouse]

I still carry a 1911. I hit exactly what I intend to with it.

I can run my CZ's pretty well by comparison. But the antique still feels right.

 

[Route 45]

high capacity vs accuracy

Why not both?

what if your more accurate with a 1911 45 than a 9mm glock. It tilts the tables and now in 2020 with more “multiple assailants” becoming more common. Also more wildlife depending where you live, what say you?

Then ditch the Glock and find a high capacity pistol with a more natural 1911-esque grip angle and feel. Train until there is no or negligible difference in your accuracy.

I estimate that IÂ’m about 10-15% more accuracy with a 1911 45 than a Glock 9mm. So even with hit rates during incident of say 25% vs 40% high capacity seems to dictate a win, despite the accuracy argument.

I used to carry Glocks, but would always hit slightly low/left in rapid fire. I could have trained out of it, but didn't see a need to when I was naturally more accurate with a pistol with a proper grip angle. (M&P for me.) A couple inches of difference in group size at 25 yards in slow fire target practice is irrelevant when considering that violent encounters are overwhelmingly measured in feet, not yards. Or more often, at bad breath distance.

I've got a 1911, but it occupies the same place in my collection as my Ruger Vaquero. Cool range toy. Nobody in a gunfight every prayed for less ammunition.

 

[2A_Tom]

1911 since '74, so...

I have actually been carrying 8 round magazines for several years, so I am high capacity.

 

[bwframe]

Everyone should learn to shoot a 9mm Glock well. It might be the only gun you have available to use. The gun most likely to be compatible with BUGS and magazines and carry gear out there.

If little girls can learn to shoot Glocks well, shouldn't everyone be able to?

 

[2A_Tom]

"If I need one there will be plenty of them laying on the ground. (M 16s)" SGM Basil Plumley

[video=youtube_share;_DUFAZcKL3k]https://youtu.be/_DUFAZcKL3k[/video]

Goes for blocks too.

Who knew that spell check would get it right!

 

[Trapper Jim]

Wait. What... no revolvers.

 

[2A_Tom]

I am waiting for the Boo

Gal

Oo so I can "pick up" some guns cheap.

 

[bwframe]

"If I need one there will be plenty of them laying on the ground. (M 16s)" SGM Basil Plumley...

That's exactly what I'm talking about. The same with AK's...

[video=youtube;EDDQsciQwyY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDDQsciQwyY[/video]

 

[2A_Tom]

That's what I am talking about.

I like action shows, one thing I hate is that in almost every one they leave viable weapons and mags laying on the ground, move on and ultimately find themselves out of ammo.

 

[churchmouse]

That's what I am talking about.

I like action shows, one thing I hate is that in almost every one they leave viable weapons and mags laying on the ground, move on and ultimately find themselves out of ammo.

Yup. When I see them strip the dead and wounded for gear I always applaud.

 

[Expat]

Everyone should learn to shoot a 9mm Glock well. It might be the only gun you have available to use. The gun most likely to be compatible with BUGS and magazines and carry gear out there.
?

Since the military will have Sig P320s when they come for us, obviously that would be what you really meant.

 

[WebSnyper]

That's what I am talking about.

I like action shows, one thing I hate is that in almost every one they leave viable weapons and mags laying on the ground, move on and ultimately find themselves out of ammo.

Yup. When I see them strip the dead and wounded for gear I always applaud.

John Wick seemed to have that skill down.