Mosin Discussion and Research

[HawkI]

Hey, I was posting in someone else's thread and didn't want to "hijack" it with my own agenda, so decided to go here. I just got my first Mosin 1891/30, and the first gun I actually own. Dad was a decent collector, but that was childhood. I love guns and everything military (army brat), am a pretty dern good shot (especially considering a lack of range time), but just haven't been able to really work with very many guns (raised by mom, who hated guns). Thus, I have some questions I'd like discussion on that may be basic to some, as well as some Mosin-specific questions. Any help would be appreciated


Can anyone help educate me on cleaning. I see the Windex comments and someone referenced solvent and oil? Assume I know nothing, b/c aside from being a pretty decent natural shot, I haven't been able to play around since I was a kid. I remember my dad teaching me to clean the gun after every use, but I don't remember what was best or if it varies from gun to gun.

Also, does anyone know good websites or resources to distinguish all the marks on the thing (Mosin 91/30)... I'm dying to know its history (pun not intended ?
I did find the following sites:
7.62x54r.net
Collecting and Shooting the Mosin-Nagant 1891/30 - HISTORY
Modern Firearms - Mosin

Each of them had decent info, but there are SO MANY marks on this gun it's insane... every time I pick it up, I find another one!

PS - how do I post a picture? (yes, I know I'll figure some of this out on my own, but this is a huge site!)

 

[HawkI]

Just created a flickr account for pics of the Mosin. Username "mosinnagant91"
1 Mosin - Complete Set | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

 

[HawkI]

Pic?

Ok, I think I figured this out now... can't use quick reply... which I didn't notice was a quick reply... yay, figured it out

 

[johntheplinker]

Very nice for a first one, with some uncommon attributes! I see a hardwood stock with a wrist bolt, not common; black sling, used by Naval Infantry, basically the Soviet equivalent to our Marines, not common at all. Looking at your other pics on Flickr, I see it was made at Tula arsenal in 1933 and was imported by Century Arms. A couple of interesting things I see are the 3 refurb (the square with a line through it) marks on the top of the chamber, and on the right side the square in a square. Not sure I've seen that one before. Many of the marks like a number or number in a circle or square are probably an individual inspector's mark, while the ones of a arrow in a triangle (sight spring and barrel band) are Izhevsk arsenal marks. Tula arsenal used a star (bolt body). I didn't see any of the older pre-1928 marks in the pics.
7.62x54r.net is probably the best site as far as cataloging markings, but there are many markings that are unknown and may not be listed there. The Russian-Soviet area of mosinnagant.net has some excellent articles regarding the history of these rifles, many written by the foremost experts in Mosin collecting.
Regarding cleaning, all Eastern bloc surplus 7.62x54r ammo uses corrosive primers that require cleaning very soon after shooting to prevent rust from forming on any metal surface it comes in contact with. For that matter, all Eastern bloc surplus should be considered corrosive primed, whether it is 8mm, 7.62x39, 5.45x39, etc, and even most western surplus ammo from before about 1950. Do not believe claims from sellers that ammo is only mildly corrosive, there is only corrosive or noncorrosive ammo. Period. Some will even claim surplus 7.62x54r ammo is noncorrosive but their claims are outright lies. SOG, I'm looking at you.
The absolute best solvent for removing the salts from the primers involve the use of water or concoctions primarily containing water. Windex is mostly water, with a bit of soap and ammonia added and is widely used and relatively cheap. Squirt some down the barrel, on the bolt face and other parts needing it, then wipe off and clean as normal.
I use plain old hot soapy water heated at home then carried to the range in an old thermos. Once I'm done shooting, I pour some over the bolt face and done the barrel using a funnel, and swab off any other metal that may have been exposed to primer gases. Using hot water heats the metal and it dries quickly. Following that I clean the barrel with a powder solvent on a bore brush, push a couple of patches down the barrel to remove the solvent then a oily patch to prevent rust. Wipe the other metal surfaces with a oily patch and I'm done. On a new shooter and if the barrel gets really gunked up, I'll use a copper solvent to get worst of the jacket fouling out. Follow the instructions if you do use some of those or you could have problems with crazing.
Anyway you decide to do it, cleaning for corrosive primer residue is easy, and only adds a couple of minutes to do, but it has to be done. Considering the cheap price for surplus ammo, a few extra minutes cleaning is easily offset by the savings on ammo.
One last tip. Before you shoot it the first time, take the time to at least remove the barreled action from the stock, disassemble the bolt and magazine, and remove any cosmolene present. Do an especially good job on the inside of the chamber, receiver, and bore to prevent chambering and extraction problems. 7.62x54r has good instructions for taking it all the way down to the last screw. Also when you do shoot it, pull the butt in tight into your natural pocket and the recoil is not as bad as what many people say it is.
Looks good and hopefully it'll be an exceptional shooter. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask as there many folks here who are knowledgeable about Mosins and are also happy to help.

 

[HawkI]

Hey, thanks SO much for the info (and the welcome), it's very, very much appreciated and helpful. I do have a few questions if you don't mind. You said "wrist bolt", what is that? I find the Naval Infantry interesting... not sure if this is the sling that goes with it orig or not, but def plausible (a little mythbusters slipping in there). The gun was actually a slightly early birthday gift from a friend and he suffers from multiplying-mosin syndrome .

Also, how do you know it was imported by Century Arms? I missed that somewhere. I really appreciate your feedback, I can tell you know and love these . Where was the square in a square? on the right? I'll have to look at it closely.

I'm not sure what you are observing with the "older pre-1928" part... were you wondering because of the refurbs?

Thanks a BUNCH for the cleaning info, esp the warning about surplus in general... I'll always play the safe side if I'm unsure, but that helps (and you are spot-on, a few minutes of cleaning is well worth it in my mind). Also, totally agree with price diff, wow!

dumb question, but just want to make sure, when you say "bolt face" you're referring to the section that actually comes in contact with the round, right?

Thanks for the warning about cleaning ahead of time and checking it over. I have actually had the pleasure of shooting it already b/c the friend I mentioned above. He gave me a number of round of the good ammo and let me go to town. I also agree that the recoil isn't what people try to make it out to be. I'm a solid guy, but I was expecting a lot more than what it actually was, I personally feel my bro-in-law's 12-gauge kicks more. Thanks again, I really appreciate the info, it's good to know there are nice people out there and hope I can help others in return.

 

[Hexa-Tula]

I believe every thing you need to know about Mosin's is on 7.62x64R.net. That is the best website I've found on Mosin-Nagant's.

 

[HawkI]

Thanks, they do seem to have quite a lot and I totally love the auto-comment and the too-cool smilies! I'm a sniper at heart, so I drool over thoughts like that

 

[PTinbound]

I have a book called "The Mosin-Nagant Rifle" by Terence W. Lapin, which you can probably get on amazon for cheap. If you are in NWI, you can come borrow mine for free.

 

[Miller Tyme]

I believe every thing you need to know about Mosin's is on 7.62x64R.net. That is the best website I've found on Mosin-Nagant's.

Don't forget Gunboards, they are the original Mosin Nagant Collectors forum

 

[HawkI]

Thanks for the info, good to know

 

[Mosineer]

Also Mosin Nagant is a good site for info including markings. They are all fun to research...

 

[johntheplinker]

Hey, thanks SO much for the info (and the welcome), it's very, very much appreciated and helpful. I do have a few questions if you don't mind. You said "wrist bolt", what is that? I find the Naval Infantry interesting... not sure if this is the sling that goes with it orig or not, but def plausible (a little mythbusters slipping in there). The gun was actually a slightly early birthday gift from a friend and he suffers from multiplying-mosin syndrome .
On your stock, there is a recoil bolt through the wrist. That's common on laminate stocks but uncommon on hardwood. Sounds like a heckuva friend and a carrier of Mosinitis to boot!
Also, how do you know it was imported by Century Arms? I missed that somewhere. I really appreciate your feedback, I can tell you know and love these . Where was the square in a square? on the right? I'll have to look at it closely.
On the left side of your receiver the dot matrix stamp that has Century Arms Intl..... is the import mark. It also includes the official, BATF required serial number. That probably starts with something along the lines 9130xxxxxxxxx.
Yes, the square in a square was on the right side just above the woodline.

I'm not sure what you are observing with the "older pre-1928" part... were you wondering because of the refurbs?
I just didn't see any of the older parts markings, not that there weren't any, just didn't see any.

Thanks a BUNCH for the cleaning info, esp the warning about surplus in general... I'll always play the safe side if I'm unsure, but that helps (and you are spot-on, a few minutes of cleaning is well worth it in my mind). Also, totally agree with price diff, wow!
You're welcome. I seen and heard about more than one barrel that suffered damage due to "noncorrosive" surplus ammo.

dumb question, but just want to make sure, when you say "bolt face" you're referring to the section that actually comes in contact with the round, right?
Yes, that is correct. Also, if you ever have a punctured primer with surplus ammo, you'll need to disassemble the bolt and clean the insides out also.

Thanks for the warning about cleaning ahead of time and checking it over. I have actually had the pleasure of shooting it already b/c the friend I mentioned above. He gave me a number of round of the good ammo and let me go to town. I also agree that the recoil isn't what people try to make it out to be. I'm a solid guy, but I was expecting a lot more than what it actually was, I personally feel my bro-in-law's 12-gauge kicks more. Thanks again, I really appreciate the info, it's good to know there are nice people out there and hope I can help others in return.

So, how did it shoot?And you are most welcome, starting out on Mosins I learned a bunch by asking questions of those more knowledgeable than myself.Any other questions, don't hesitate to ask.

 

[alloyguitar]

I have a book called "The Mosin-Nagant Rifle" by Terence W. Lapin, which you can probably get on amazon for cheap. If you are in NWI, you can come borrow mine for free.

Is it any good? I might pick up a copy if it's worth a damn.

 

[MrSmitty]

I like the 7.62x54r.net but there are ALOT of what I call "FARBS= Far be it for me to tell you...etc

 

[HawkI]

Another site for pics

ok, so after a short period of time playing with it, I decided I don't care for Flickr's system. So, I switched to picasa with google because there's not an upload limit per month for free accounts and you can actually organize them... what a novel concept! Anyway, I wanted to post my new location for pics and let you know that I've added some now that I've had a chance to break the gun down.

Picasa Web Albums - Mosin Nagant

 

[23mar03]

Not only does 7.62x54r.net tell you about the markings, but I also has balistics data for the different surplus rounds in different rifles.
Happy shooting and welcome aboard!

 

[HawkI]

Reply of Replies

Wow, ok, so apparently I’m still getting used to the forum as well… I wondered why it showed “person x” as the last person that posted when it wasn’t… I shouldn’t be admitting this, but I didn’t see the second page (more correctly, didn’t realize it switched over to a second page). With that said, I’ll now actually respond (oops

@ Mosineer… great name, made me laugh in a good way. Totally agree with your quote too!

@ johntheplinker, thanks SO much for the reply, very informative (even had to look up some terminology . Didn’t know about the recoil bolt, much less that it was uncommon, though I can see why after researching… doesn’t even list it in “PTinbound’s book). Yes, he is a good friend and a very generous one (it even has matching serials)… and contagious!

I wondered what that meant (can you tell I’m early in the research proj… he he) and especially what the other numbers are and yes, they start with those numbers… that also explains why those markings aren’t anywhere near related to the orig. Knew it was imported, but hadn’t thought about that (I’m beginning to sound like an idiot on here… all so new)

The square in a square… I put some better pics up, if I’m following you, there are two marks very similar to each other (actually, the same). They have a boxed-looking U inside of a square.

Thanks once again for all the info / answers. It shot VERY well, I was impressed. Like I’ve said, I feel like I’m a pretty decent shot, esp considering the lack of range time. That said, I feel like it fired pretty true. It has what I believe to be the standard “2” accuracy designation from the factory… if I understand correctly, that just means it just wasn’t “sniper” quality. The barrel moves a bit in the stock, so I know it’s not completely true, but I was really impressed to be quite honest. If I can figure it out, I’ll post the pic of my first shots with it. Bearing in mind this is the first time I’ve fired a rifle in years and I was in the standing position, you can see the groupings are pretty decent (ignore the three to the bottom left ). I think it is mostly my error, with a tinge of not being totally accurate. With all that said, considering we’re talking about a 78 year old weapon that saw battle, it was perfect. I’d stack it up against anything modern, I can tell you that! I really appreciate the offer on more questions too… I might take you up on that. If you want to browse the new pics, they’re at https://picasaweb.google.com/mosin91/MosinRiflePicturesForPosting#, we can always discuss them on the actual pics too. Thanks again, you rock!


@ alloyguitar, I’ve only browsed it, but thus far… TOTALLY worth the $20-25… I’ll probably add it to my collection. It is very detailed and packed with info and some history.

@ Mrsmitty and 23mar03, thanks




Let's see if I can get the picture thing to work:

I just have to use this... love this smiley

 

[HawkI]

Try 2 for Pics

Ok, let's try it again... perhaps link wasn't good

and the album is at https://picasaweb.google.com/mosin91/MosinRiflePicturesForPosting#

 

[HawkI]

officially frustrated with picture thing...

 

[HawkI]

One more and I give up

one more try and then I give up...