My anti-gun friend's argument

[IndyDave1776]

Actually the weapons the Americans used were hunting rifles and were more accurate than the Brittish issued military rifles. How can he understand how we feel? The last time I looked there was no constitutional right to play online poker...

I don't want to be a jerk, but the British Brown Bess was a smoothbore. The net result was a higher rate of fire (about half the reload time of a Pennsylvania rifle) and accuracy useful for mass fire but not for shooting at individual targets at any great range.

 

[rockhopper46038]

Good post, gunowner930. It'll likely be lost on the anti-gun "friend" of the OP, but it was worth repeating.

 

[Whosyer]

I quit reading at the mention of muskets. Same tired old talking point. I also think the dude is a little confused, it seems he thinks the 2A is about the right to wear tank tops.

 

[snowwalker]

To assume that the military and police would ALWAYS side with the government is a stretch. We have had problems with our armed forces even being allowed to vote in the past several years, let alone fight against their own citizens. Foreign AND domestic (our government) come to mind. Add to that the fact that our government does not treat our returning warriors very well and............

 

[sepe]

Why was his ability to play semi-pro online poker taken away? Sounds like he has his own issues, and needs to leave the rest of us alone.

The big push against online gambling. It dried up for awhile but there were always still a few sites that had online poker for real money.

 

[IndyGunSafety]

Tench Coxe summed it up nicely: "Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American... [T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people"

• Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

 

[gglass]

What did the founders think about citizens owning any instrument of war that soldiers use? Let's find out...

TENCHE COXE, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788
"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man gainst his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American...[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people."

TENCHE COXE,
As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people, duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which shall be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow-citizens, the people are confirmed by the next article in their right to keep and bear their private arms.

Tench Coxe was an American political economist and a delegate for Pennsylvania to the Continental Congress in 1788-1789. He wrote under the pseudonym "A Pennsylvanian".

PATRICK HENRY
"The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun."
"Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?"

GEORGE WASHINGTON
“A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.”

GEORGE MASON, Virginia Constitution Convention
"When the resolution of enslaving America was formed in Great Britain, the British Parliament was advised by an artful man, who was governor of Pennsylvania, to disarm the people; that it was the best and most effectual way to enslave them; but that they should not do it openly, but weaken them, and let them sink gradually...I ask, who are the militia? They consist of now of the whole people, except a few public officers. But I cannot say who will be the militia of the future day. If that paper on the table gets no alteration, the militia of the future day may not consist of all classes, high and low, and rich and poor..."

It is clear to me that the founders would be fully in favor of every citizen's right to KEEP and BEAR every instrument of war, and they wanted WE THE PEOPLE to be as capable to wage war as any stare or federal army.

 

[N_K_1984]

But I'm just wondering if we went back and asked our founding fathers - with today's technology, would they still put a blanket "right to bare arms" in the Constitution, or if they may put some limitations on what normal citizens are allowed to buy/own/carry? Just curious...

No offense, OP. With people like your friend running around spewing such ignorance in a public forum such as Facebook, perhaps the founding fathers would rethink our freedom of speech as well....

I am so sick of all of this anti-gun mouth diarrhea. A couple years ago, my best friend had his garage broken into by two guys around 5am. Upon walking into his garage, my buddy was assaulted and nearly beaten to death. In a panic, the two young men used claw hammers as weapons. I want you to think about the severity of that... Thankfully, my buddy's dad happened by the garage, (as they ride to work together) saw the two guys assaulting my friend, and fought them off. In the scuffle, he was stabbed in the head with a screw driver by one of the assailants. Luckily the screwdriver passed between the scalp and the skull without penetrating any bone. He managed to fight off the two young men long enough until both intruders fled the scene on foot. Both my buddy and his dad walked away with their lives.

What I'm getting at here is this; my best friend and his father were both nearly taken from me, taken from their friends, my buddy's fiance, his dad's wife, and their family by two desperate young men wielding household tools. I did not push to ban hammers. I did not write to my congressman about the danger of screwdrivers. Still to this day, I use hammers and screwdrivers all the time. The tools are not the criminals here. Anything can become a weapon when in the wrong hands. Gun grabbers and their ignorance make me sick. The answer is not banning guns. The answer is education and respect. These are two things that there seems to be a lack of in our modern society.

 

[jbombelli]

The blood of those children is on his hands, and those of the shooter.

He and others like him made it impossible for people to *legally* fight in the defense of those children, paving the way for something like that to happen.

 

[Lex Concord]

Actually, our weapons were superior to theirs. We had shorter rifles which made traversing easier, and also easier to reload. I believe quite a few of the revolutionists also used breach loaders.

Shhhh...George Rogers Clark might be listening.

 

[indyrun]

The blood of those children is on his hands, and those of the shooter.

He and others like him made it impossible for people to *legally* fight in the defense of those children, paving the way for something like that to happen.

You are so right. "Gun Free Zones" only make the criminals safe and the "zone" a more inviting target!

 

[Lex Concord]

If the second amendment only applies to muskets then the first only applies to newspapers, printed one page at a time....the word militia gives you the justification for the semi- auto..as long as it's suitable for military use the second amendment applies. It's the sporting guns that aren't protected.

The word militia (SCotUS rulings notwithstanding) is immaterial.

The right to a semi-auto, full auto, cannon or 20mm is not derived from these vaunted words, but is merely recognized by them.

I get that you're on the right side, but sometimes large distinctions can seem small.

 

[HavokCycle]

people keep saying the gov won't stand against its citizens.

Kent State shootings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Lex Concord]

Tench Coxe summed it up nicely: "Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American... [T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people"

• Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

I think I read that somewhere

 

[Hop]

No offense, OP. With people like your friend running around spewing such ignorance in a public forum such as Facebook, perhaps the founding fathers would rethink our freedom of speech as well....

I am so sick of all of this anti-gun mouth diarrhea. A couple years ago, my best friend had his garage broken into by two guys around 5am. Upon walking into his garage, my buddy was assaulted and nearly beaten to death. In a panic, the two young men used claw hammers as weapons. I want you to think about the severity of that... Thankfully, my buddy's dad happened by the garage, (as they ride to work together) saw the two guys assaulting my friend, and fought them off. In the scuffle, he was stabbed in the head with a screw driver by one of the assailants. Luckily the screwdriver passed between the scalp and the skull without penetrating any bone. He managed to fight off the two young men long enough until both intruders fled the scene on foot. Both my buddy and his dad walked away with their lives.

What I'm getting at here is this; my best friend and his father were both nearly taken from me, taken from their friends, my buddy's fiance, his dad's wife, and their family by two desperate young men wielding household tools. I did not push to ban hammers. I did not write to my congressman about the danger of screwdrivers. Still to this day, I use hammers and screwdrivers all the time. The tools are not the criminals here. Anything can become a weapon when in the wrong hands. Gun grabbers and their ignorance make me sick. The answer is not banning guns. The answer is education and respect. These are two things that there seems to be a lack of in our modern society.

N_K, if your buddy was also from near Bloomington I've met him. I can't exactly remember what I was selling but he came to my house to buy it I heard this exact story. It's one of the reasons I went from just a gun owner to someone who carries almost daily.

 

[N_K_1984]

N_K, if your buddy was also from near Bloomington I've met him. I can't exactly remember what I was selling but he came to my house to buy it I heard this exact story. It's one of the reasons I went from just a gun owner to someone who carries almost daily.

My buddy lives about 45 minutes south of Btown. If you were selling car parts, it was mostly likely him! Small world.

He was not a gun owner until after that day. He began carrying after that. His story is the perfect counter point to any gun grabber BS. If you want to ban guns, ban free speech, alcohol, ink pens, hammers, and baseball bats while you're at it.

Banning firearms does nothing but disarm the honest. Evil exists in this world. It can't be legislated or fixed.

 

[Hop]

My buddy lives about 45 minutes south of Btown. If you were selling car parts, it was mostly likely him! Small world.

He was not a gun owner until after that day. He began carrying after that. His story is the perfect counter point to any gun grabber BS. If you want to ban guns, ban free speech, alcohol, ink pens, hammers, and baseball bats while you're at it.

Banning firearms does nothing but disarm the honest. Evil exists in this world. It can't be legislated or fixed.

Yes, it was a black Sparco race seat. Wow, small world indeed.

 

[IRISH1]

Everyone is attacking the second amendment and ignoring the fact that the first amendment has just as mutch to do with these tragedies as people CLAIM the second does. If the people who vomit the news on national television exercised the first amendment right to say less and let the actions and events speak for themselves. First amendment needs a clause the the speech used in the media must be truthful and supported with facts. If people who carry out these awful acts were not glamourized people would not try to outdo the person before them. Does anyone ever read about the good deeds of a law abiding citizen? I mean they publish a monthly paper with people who have been arrested or are wanted. What about the people who are doing the right thing. The secon amendment is like the goofy fat kid. Whenever something goes wrong or nothing else has everyone's attention everyone picks on him. Give the gripe about taking away guns a rest and spend your time trying to pick apart another amendment.

 

[davedolli]

My anti-gun friend's argument is this.... nothing...... I have no anti- gun friends, and do not want any.

Dave

 

[MTC]

Everyone is attacking the second amendment and ignoring the fact that the first amendment has just as mutch to do with these tragedies as people CLAIM the second does. If the people who vomit the news on national television exercised the first amendment right to say less and let the actions and events speak for themselves.First amendment needs a clause the the speech used in the media must be truthful and supported with facts. If people who carry out these awful acts were not glamourized people would not try to outdo the person before them.

Aye, Lad. Ya may be on ta sumthin'.
I propose mandatory psych evals, fingerprinting, FBI background checks (plus a colonoscopy) for everyone in the print or broadcast "news media", especially if they're applying for permission to operate any "high-capacity" digital or other device (beyond say, 1kb). After all, the Founding Fathers could not possibly have foreseen the destructive potential of this modern technology - which only the police and military should have, anyway. And besides, what does anyone need with that kind of high-powered high-capacity military-grade hardware?

Furthermore, I propose a minimum ten years imprisonment and $10,000 fine for each count of libel, slander, deliberate falsification, misrepresentation or otherwise lying to the people.