My new Dillon 650 - You were right! I was in over my head.

[Dead Duck]

I'm sure it's funny depending on what shirt you wear.

 

[Bfish]

I see that ProFire has a class coming up for advanced 223 in May but that's the last of anything listed. Everything I see is in May. I was looking at single stages and ended up with a new unopened RL 550B from a neighbor he never got around to setting up. Anyhow I need to learn and would be interested in going. Anyone who may know more beyond their website would be great!

 

[bwframe]

...what do you tell a woman with two black eyes ? ...

I tell her about Sam Colt...

 

[bmbutch]

Sounds like OP has it figured out, a bit of learning, but was cranking them out at the end.

I stareted with Dillon 550B, & love it, started slow, & can now go decently quick. I don't load hundreds at a time, mostly enough to "load 50~150" more than I shoot that week. Stock grows weekly, not in a race.

I do try & buy components when I find them (within reason, which is subjective).

 

[N8RV]

Craigkim, your story echoes mine. With no mentor to guide me, I ordered an XL650 a few years ago, even knowing that I'd be better off learning the art with a single-stage and advancing. However, that's just not how I do things. I'm generally impulsive and tend to think that I can tackle just about any challenge. That trait has caused me much anguish over the years, too. Besides, the Dillon videos of how the press works were convincing. Heck, just plop on a bullet, pull the handle, and out pops a perfect cartridge, right?

Well, like you, I spent many frustrating hours cranking the handle and having some issue every 5 or 10 cartridges. Smashed cases at Station #1, hung cases in the feed tube, only a rare flipped primer though. I, too, was stopping every few rounds to double-check the powder drop. Eventually, with a LOT of tweaking, the issues resolved themselves. I wish I could tell you that I solved each and every issue and figured it out on my own, but the reality is that some were just gremlins. They just disappeared. I would guess that it's really because as I did more reloading, I became more aware of the process and maybe became more sensitive to how I was doing it. I dunno.

Now, when I reload, I do 500-1K at a time and just toss 'em into an ammo can. I used to gauge each and every one until I didn't and nothing bad happened. In gauging every cartridge, all I ever discovered was a couple of flipped primers and a few split cases.

As an aside, I did make some aftermarket changes to the machine that, while not solving any particular issues, did smooth out the operation. I added a roller wheel to the arm that rides on the slanted cam and replaced the metal detent ball and spring with a Delrin ball and lighter spring. They took away just about all jiggling of the turntable.

I still have an occasional case that doesn't seat all the way in Station 1 and, as soon as I feel resistance, just push it back in and continue. I still get the occasional jammed case in the feed tube, and it's always a .40 S&W that somehow slipped through my sorting process. Ditto for the .380 cases.

Glad that things are finally working for you. I do agree with the others who have suggested taking a reloading class. Education is always good.

 

[miguel]

Ya - Those progressive presses can be a real pain tn the butt.

I'll tell what I'm going to do for you.
I will trade you 10 brand new shiny 20 dollar bills for your problems and I'll even pay for shipping.

No, no, no...

Trade it for my Lee turret...which you can run single-stage until you get the hang of it. I will deliver and take away that blue boat anchor for you!

Hang in there, you will get it going with help from these guys!

 

[craigkim]

Craigkim, your story echoes mine. With no mentor to guide me, I ordered an XL650 a few years ago, even knowing that I'd be better off learning the art with a single-stage and advancing. However, that's just not how I do things. I'm generally impulsive and tend to think that I can tackle just about any challenge. That trait has caused me much anguish over the years, too. Besides, the Dillon videos of how the press works were convincing. Heck, just plop on a bullet, pull the handle, and out pops a perfect cartridge, right?

Well, like you, I spent many frustrating hours cranking the handle and having some issue every 5 or 10 cartridges. Smashed cases at Station #1, hung cases in the feed tube, only a rare flipped primer though. I, too, was stopping every few rounds to double-check the powder drop. Eventually, with a LOT of tweaking, the issues resolved themselves. I wish I could tell you that I solved each and every issue and figured it out on my own, but the reality is that some were just gremlins. They just disappeared. I would guess that it's really because as I did more reloading, I became more aware of the process and maybe became more sensitive to how I was doing it. I dunno.

Now, when I reload, I do 500-1K at a time and just toss 'em into an ammo can. I used to gauge each and every one until I didn't and nothing bad happened. In gauging every cartridge, all I ever discovered was a couple of flipped primers and a few split cases.

As an aside, I did make some aftermarket changes to the machine that, while not solving any particular issues, did smooth out the operation. I added a roller wheel to the arm that rides on the slanted cam and replaced the metal detent ball and spring with a Delrin ball and lighter spring. They took away just about all jiggling of the turntable.

I still have an occasional case that doesn't seat all the way in Station 1 and, as soon as I feel resistance, just push it back in and continue. I still get the occasional jammed case in the feed tube, and it's always a .40 S&W that somehow slipped through my sorting process. Ditto for the .380 cases.

Glad that things are finally working for you. I do agree with the others who have suggested taking a reloading class. Education is always good.

Thanks for the constructive communication and making me feel like I am not alone.

Honestly, I am really pretty timid about shooting reloaded ammo. So, I just racked my brain thinking of ways to increase my safety margins. I'm not too worried about a double charge, as that seems HIGHLY unlikely on the 650, but I am worried about squib loads with NO powder charge. So, despite having checked external dimensions to the umteenth level, I thought, "Why not check the mass on the cartridges for variance?" Guess what I found. As long as the cartridge was the same manufacturer, the cartridges were all within about 1.5-2.0 grains of each other. SO, I just found an average and tared the scale and ran all of the cartridges on it. It was super fast and easy about 3 mins to check 50. When I switched brass manufacturers, I readjusted. If I had one that varied more than 1.0 grain from the tare, I set it aside. In ALMOST every case it was simply that I had some win brass in a batch of federal. BUT! In 2 cartridges I found them to be 4.5 grains light! I bet they don't have powder. How? I'll work on that, but the important thing is, those will be pulled and NOT go into my gun. They were from my first batch and the 200 I ran last night had no problems, so I think I have that figured out now and by that I mean, PAY ATTENTION! I think when I first started the powder check was beeping so often with the cases not feeding that maybe a couple slipped by.

I ran 200 last night with 1 primer that didn't seat right and I had 2 cases get hung up on the locator, but I just bump them with my index finger and they pop into place.

I don't think I will try to do any of the less forgiving reloading, like 223 prior to taking a class on it.

 

[bwframe]

...I just racked my brain thinking of ways to increase my safety margins. I'm not too worried about a double charge, as that seems HIGHLY unlikely on the 650, but I am worried about squib loads with NO powder charge...

I have always visually checked EACH CASE for powder being present prior to setting the bullet to be seated. Never had a no-powder squib in ~50K loadings. Dillon makes a bolt on powder check to do this for you automatically, but the powder level in a .45 ACP case is simple to see, even for my older eyes. You just have to make it MANDATORY each pull of the handle.

After tens of thousands of loads, one needs to pay closer attention to powder drop variances in your measure, but that is another topic. A routine check of the weights of the first few powder drops each loading session will suffice.

 

[rvb]

I have always visually checked EACH CASE for powder being present prior to setting the bullet to be seated. Never had a no-powder squib in ~50K loadings. Dillon makes a bolt on powder check to do this for you automatically, but the powder level in a .45 ACP case is simple to see, even for my older eyes. You just have to make it MANDATORY each pull of the handle.

After tens of thousands of loads, one needs to pay closer attention to powder drop variances in your measure, but that is another topic. A routine check of the weights of the first few powder drops each loading session will suffice.

quoting just to emphasize this. LOOK in every case before you set the bullet down.

similarly, I check powder weight at the start of each session or every 500 rounds, w/ever comes first...

-rvb

 

[craigkim]

I have always visually checked EACH CASE for powder being present prior to setting the bullet to be seated. Never had a no-powder squib in ~50K loadings. Dillon makes a bolt on powder check to do this for you automatically, but the powder level in a .45 ACP case is simple to see, even for my older eyes. You just have to make it MANDATORY each pull of the handle.

After tens of thousands of loads, one needs to pay closer attention to powder drop variances in your measure, but that is another topic. A routine check of the weights of the first few powder drops each loading session will suffice.

Oh, I am just kicking myself, and a bit embarrassed, but I am glad I found them. I haven't pulled them yet, but my scale is accurate to .02 grains, so if it reads 4.5 grains light on a cartridge that should have 4.5 grains of powder, well, it doesn't take a genius. I will NOT rely on solely my scale, but honestly, I'll be pretty likely to scale EVERY cartridge I make for a good while. It helped me cull out odd brass too.

I have the powder check station and I have it installed. When I was having case feeding issues, the damn thing was beeping all of the time, because I had empty stations frequently. Plus, my attention was divided too much toward the case feed. Now that my press is running well, it's very handy. I still look, but it allows me two ways to look at it. Dillon says it doesn't check powder for accuracy, but if you have it adjusted dead center in the groove and you add .2-.3 grains of powder, you will see that is not centered in the groove and the pin is lower in the groove. So, I check visually and audibly with the powder check station AND then I look to make sure there is powder in the brass. It's slower, but I'll take slower over kaboom.

 

[bwframe]

Oh, I am just kicking myself, and a bit embarrassed, but I am glad I found them. I haven't pulled them yet, but my scale is accurate to .02 grains, so if it reads 4.5 grains light on a cartridge that should have 4.5 grains of powder, well, it doesn't take a genius. I will NOT rely on solely my scale, but honestly, I'll be pretty likely to scale EVERY cartridge I make for a good while. It helped me cull out odd brass too.

I have the powder check station and I have it installed. When I was having case feeding issues, the damn thing was beeping all of the time, because I had empty stations frequently. Plus, my attention was divided too much toward the case feed. Now that my press is running well, it's very handy. I still look, but it allows me two ways to look at it. Dillon says it doesn't check powder for accuracy, but if you have it adjusted dead center in the groove and you add .2-.3 grains of powder, you will see that is not centered in the groove and the pin is lower in the groove. So, I check visually and audibly with the powder check station AND then I look to make sure there is powder in the brass. It's slower, but I'll take slower over kaboom.

I have never weighed finished cartridges, but would think the normal variance in bullet and brass weights would negate a good estimate of whether powder was dropped or not? I am sure that my OAL measurements have to have a fair amount of slop due to case length/bullet length variance.

I don't cull out any brass that is not damaged. Unless a sample % the finished cartridges don't pass the case gauge/actual barrel chamber check they get shot. I use range pick up brass in my Kart and Wilson NM barrels without much issue. Other than the damned small primer pocket sorting I pay no attention to brand or headstamp.

You are right to be cautious, but I don't think you need to pull all suspect bullets. Pull a few to make sure you do have powder. If you find all do, use these up for shooting slow groups, knowing there could be a squib. Obviously, you wouldn't risk this if there was any thought of a double charge, but as you stated it would be difficult to do on your XL650 under normal circumstances.

FYI - I was hounded by my mentors early on in my loading to check every case for powder and wear safety glasses while loading. Both of these orders given by seasoned competition shooting reloaders have proven themselves.

 

[craigkim]

I have never weighed finished cartridges, but would think the normal variance in bullet and brass weights would negate a good estimate of whether powder was dropped or not? I am sure that my OAL measurements have to have a fair amount of slop due to case length/bullet length variance.

I don't cull out any brass that is not damaged. Unless a sample % the finished cartridges don't pass the case gauge/actual barrel chamber check they get shot. I use range pick up brass in my Kart and Wilson NM barrels without much issue. Other than the damned small primer pocket sorting I pay no attention to brand or headstamp.

You are right to be cautious, but I don't think you need to pull all suspect bullets. Pull a few to make sure you do have powder. If you find all do, use these up for shooting slow groups, knowing there could be a squib. Obviously, you wouldn't risk this if there was any thought of a double charge, but as you stated it would be difficult to do on your XL650 under normal circumstances.

FYI - I was hounded by my mentors early on in my loading to check every case for powder and wear safety glasses while loading. Both of these orders given by seasoned competition shooting reloaders have proven themselves.

I am not arguing with you, you know a lot more than I do. I never thought that the cartridges would have that consistent of masses either?!?! The Sierra bullets do not vary much at ALL and the factory brass was the real variable factor. I adjusted my powder throw down to where it throws between 4.48-4.52 grains every time. If I were putting a group of loaded federal cartridges on the scale and I came along one that weighed 324-325 grains, I could bet pretty safely it was a Win cartridge, whereas 322-323 would be federal. I even mixed a dozen or so to test my theory. Worked every time. So, as I compared, in all seriousness if the brass was the same, the cartridges were within 2 grains of each other! All of my brass is once fired and I am going to keep track of it that way and sort it by the times it has been loaded. I only found 2 cartridges that were 4.5 grains light out of the hundreds I've checked. I had one that was 1.5 over the average for the other cases and I am still going to pull it just to see. It's only 3 rounds out of hundreds in order to check and learn.

Great suggestion and I appreciate it.... I wouldn't go near this thing without eye protection on and I wear muffs too.

 

[N8RV]

Craigkim, you might consider picking up a small gooseneck LED light -- I think I found one at Target -- that clamps onto your bench and plugs in. I bent the neck so that the light shines directly into the cartridge in Station 4. That way, with the powder checker alerting me to too much or too little powder, I also take a quick peek into the case to make sure that I see powder to the right level. I've never had a squib or double charge. NEVER.

Now that my press is running pretty smoothly and I can crank 'em out with few interruptions, I make checking three things part of my loading process every time I pull the handle -- LOOK to see that a new case is fully seated in the carosel, LOOK into the case in Station 4 to ensure that I see powder, and LOOK at the bullet as I seat it (I dialed back my case flare and consequently have an occasional bullet fall sideways onto the case.) If I check all three things before pulling the handle, I can usually load 600-700 rounds without stopping to reload my primer tubes. By then, my shoulder isn't happy with me anyway.

Hope that helps.

 

[longbow]

Someday I will get a 650 or 550. However, my QC and safety background will make it an interesting process. I will be sorting each part by weight to make sure I don't overload anything. Over or under loaded is my big concern. It is just my nature. If I had more time, I'd being doing it now. I do have an extra maple top workbench waiting to be my reloading bench.

 

[Indy-Mike]

I love my LED skylight to throw the light in the cartridge to easily see the powder. A bit pricey buy in sits the the hole on the middle of toolheads and works perfectly.

Skylight LED lighting Kit for the Dillon xl 650 xl650 light lighting | Inline Fabrication

 

[craigkim]

I love my LED skylight to throw the light in the cartridge to easily see the powder. A bit pricey buy in sits the the hole on the middle of toolheads and works perfectly.

Skylight LED lighting Kit for the Dillon xl 650 xl650 light lighting | Inline Fabrication

That looks really cool. Wish I had seen that before. I have the Hornady option that is a strip of LEDs and it is supposed to stick to the press somewhere. It wouldn't stick to anything and I haven't figured out where I will zip tie it on the press to give the most light into the cartridges and not have it be blinding or glaring. Not super happy with it.

 

[Indy-Mike]

That looks really cool. Wish I had seen that before. I have the Hornady option that is a strip of LEDs and it is supposed to stick to the press somewhere. It wouldn't stick to anything and I haven't figured out where I will zip tie it on the press to give the most light into the cartridges and not have it be blinding or glaring. Not super happy with it.

they make one for the Hornady LNL "Skylight" LED lighting system for the Hornady LNL AP | Inline Fabrication

 

[craigkim]

they make one for the Hornady LNL "Skylight" LED lighting system for the Hornady LNL AP | Inline Fabrication

Oh, ha, I didn't buy it because I have anything Hornady, I bought it because I could get it fast from amazon along with a snap on led shop light. I had no light where I was putting my press. It is the Hornady LNL strip. I am in my basement and the shop light sits at a shelf above eye level and shines onto some galvanized duct work to reflect back down on the press. Works fairly well, but I would like to have a strong light right over the brass.

 

[BGDave]

Craigkim, you might consider picking up a small gooseneck LED light -- I think I found one at Target -- that clamps onto your bench and plugs in. I bent the neck so that the light shines directly into the cartridge in Station 4. That way, with the powder checker alerting me to too much or too little powder, I also take a quick peek into the case to make sure that I see powder to the right level. I've never had a squib or double charge. NEVER.

Now that my press is running pretty smoothly and I can crank 'em out with few interruptions, I make checking three things part of my loading process every time I pull the handle -- LOOK to see that a new case is fully seated in the carosel, LOOK into the case in Station 4 to ensure that I see powder, and LOOK at the bullet as I seat it (I dialed back my case flare and consequently have an occasional bullet fall sideways onto the case.) If I check all three things before pulling the handle, I can usually load 600-700 rounds without stopping to reload my primer tubes. By then, my shoulder isn't happy with me anyway.

Hope that helps.

OP; this guy know his stuff. Only other thing is, the station one cam has two sides, rifle and pistol. May want to double check.

On another note, I have noticed some less than gentlemanly behavior in the reloading forum of late.

There is an ignore feature on this forum. I'd suggest familiarizing yourself with it. Looks like one poster saved you some time.

 

[Gluemanz28]

OP; this guy know his stuff. Only other thing is, the station one cam has two sides, rifle and pistol. May want to double check.

On another note, I have noticed some less than gentlemanly behavior in the reloading forum of late.

There is an ignore feature on this forum. I'd suggest familiarizing yourself with it. Looks like one poster saved you some time.

^^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^ Is the best post that I have read all week. Rep headed your way.