Need advice on the best .45 round for personal protection

[melensdad]

I use SXTs.

rant on:

But is the STX optimized for his short barrel gun?

The guy asked for advice on the best ammo. He later said he had a compact barreled gun. Some ammo is optimized for short barrel guns while most is designed for duty length barrels. He really is looking for the best ammo for a short barrel 45. Did you actually read the thread and answer that question? Or did you just post up your 2-bits advice after reading the first post?

Honestly one of the problems I see here on INGO is there are so many answers that people throw out without bothering to find out the real question that needs to be answered.

/rant off

If they function reliably in your particular gun, this is not a bad list:

Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

But you will notice that the tests are a simple standardized test. No variation for barrel lengths and we all know that barrel length has a huge impact on velocity. Handgun bullets are known to fail if they travel too slowly and short barrels throw bullets at slower speeds.

Please go back up and read the rant above.

 

[dom1104]

rant on:

But is the STX optimized for his short barrel gun?

The guy asked for advice on the best ammo. He later said he had a compact barreled gun. Some ammo is optimized for short barrel guns while most is designed for duty length barrels. He really is looking for the best ammo for a short barrel 45. Did you actually read the thread and answer that question? Or did you just post up your 2-bits advice after reading the first post?

Honestly one of the problems I see here on INGO is there are so many answers that people throw out without bothering to find out the real question that needs to be answered.

/rant off




But you will notice that the tests are a simple standardized test. No variation for barrel lengths and we all know that barrel length has a huge impact on velocity. Handgun bullets are known to fail if they travel too slowly and short barrels throw bullets at slower speeds.

Please go back up and read the rant above.

<Edit: Dont feed the trolls>

 

[melensdad]

The M&P 45 Compact has a 4 inch barrel. and yes the SXTs work fine in 4 inch barrels.......

Which study says so? Is there actual shooting data to back it up?

Just you?

What is the velocity loss from a 5" to a 4" barrel with that round? I'd be willing to bet its more than you think. It might even be as much as 125 feet per second. That would be greater than a 10% velocity loss.

Very few things in this world perform to their optimum level at 10% below their designed operating requirement.

 

[dom1104]

Which study says so? Is there actual shooting data to back it up?

Just you?

What is the velocity loss from a 5" to a 4" barrel with that round? I'd be willing to bet its more than you think.

<Edit: I had posted my chono and expansion testing results, but I realized I was feeding a troll. its best to just drop it>

 

[Aszerigan]

Dom-

All BS aside, buy either Hornady Critical Defense or Red Star 230gn Personal Protection ammo. I'll send you a sample if you're interested. JHP's are nice, but I use Sierra Sports Master Power Jackets with an extra wide cavity. Even XTP's and Gold Dots get plugged with denim or cotton because their cavity is too shallow.

I carry the Power Jackets in my G21. There's good ammo, then there is great ammo.

 

[melensdad]

Man you never give up do you? at 3 yards I was getting 830 to 860 FPS out of a 4 1/4 inch 1911.
...
And I like them.

And I dont see why I need to PROVE why I like them.

He didn't ask what brand/style people here LIKE. He asked what was BEST.

He then indicated he had a compact gun.

You tested your round and you say it works. I'll take your word for it. We don't know how well it worked in terms of penetration and expansion, but we'll grant you that you got results you like.

Are your results better than the results for rounds optimized for 4" barrels?

You'll notice in the links that I provided that velocities with 4" barrels, using ammo optimized for compact guns, are much higher than you are reporting (some by nearly 200fps). Do you think that might affect either the expansion or the penetration (or perhaps both)?

I don't really think the OP cares what I really really LIKE. I think he cares what will protect his family the BEST.

My point is that there are a lot of folks here on INGO who toss out pretty uninformed answers/opinions and then take offense when those answers/opinions are shown to be somewhat questionable. Really they should learn to post objective information rather than subjective information because that is where the real truth is hidden.

 

[dom1104]

That might be good advice Azerigan, but I am pretty sold on the SXTs, I have tested them pretty extensively and they work.

I will wait till I see you again to tell you how I tested them, might be some PETA members hanging around .. you know how that goes.

But yeah, I will stick with the Winchester thanks anyhow

 

[Aszerigan]

The offer is still open - if you want some RS 230gn PD, you know where I am. I'll let you shoot them, then tell me how they stack up to the SXT's.

 

[dom1104]

He didn't ask what brand/style people here LIKE. He asked what was BEST.

He then indicated he had a compact gun.

You tested your round and you say it works. I'll take your word for it. We don't know how well it worked in terms of penetration and expansion, but we'll grant you that you got results you like.

Are your results better than the results for rounds optimized for 4" barrels?

You'll notice in the links that I provided that velocities with 4" barrels, using ammo optimized for compact guns, are much higher than you are reporting (some by nearly 200fps). Do you think that might affect either the expansion or the penetration (or perhaps both)?

I don't really think the OP cares what I really really LIKE. I think he cares what will protect his family the BEST.

My point is that there are a lot of folks here on INGO who toss out pretty uninformed answers/opinions and then take offense when those answers/opinions are shown to be somewhat questionable. Really they should learn to post objective information rather than subjective information because that is where the real truth is hidden.

I follow you man, but I think you may be wise to not call out people and assume they havent done their homework.

I will PM you my testing results and lets see if it passes your muster.

 

[Dave Doehrman]

Go to Wiki .45 ACP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and about halfway down the page, in the Performance section, they have a great chart showing the most popular defense rounds and stopping power comparison. It doesn't address accuracy or function, but has a great evaluation of "One shot stopping power".

I'll get hammered for this, but I just carry S&B 230 gr FMJ. One hit just about anywhere in the body mass will put an end to just about any situation. I know it functions flawlessly in all my 45s and it's the round I practice and sight in with.

 

[VUPDblue]

I just carry S&B 230 gr FMJ. One hit just about anywhere in the body mass will put an end to just about any situation.

They say shot placement is king. They say that for a reason. The .45 is not magic.

 

[Love the 1911]

They say shot placement is king. They say that for a reason. The .45 is not magic.

If you weren't a mod....

 

[INyooper]

Uhhhh ...what was the question???

Okay, we've (likely) all been there. Ya get a shiny new gun (or a nice black Glock! ) and you want the "baddest" (or modifier of choice) defensive round to feed it.

Problem is, there are more options than a person can shake an evil 33-round magazine at! So, you go to your favorite gun forum and post the question ...only to get inundated with suggestions, stories, web links, gelatin report data, suggestions for favorite pizza toppings, pet names for dogs and, before you know it ....what was the question again???

Oh yea, the killing round. Yeah, what will be the magic bullet of bullets? ...so to speak ...in 25 words or less???

Good news *and* bad news ....there ain't one. There are several fine defensive rounds and/or choices in a wide-range of calibers. Your job, as a motivated handgun owner, is to do some hands-on research (it really is the fun part too! I mean, you get to shoot ammo!!! What's not to like about that???).

Take some of the suggestions listed here. Do some more reading ...research. Narrow it down to a few choices. Find a well-stocked local store that sells a few of your choices. Decide for yourself based on how your gun feeds the ammo and, of course, which seems most accurate. But, it doesn't stop there!

It's a continuing process of choosing, evaluating, researching, discussing, however you'd like to go about it ....including asking the question now and then on gun forums ...and then sitting back and watching the foray until the dust settles!

Remember, it ain't the destination, it's the journey!

Oh, I'd tell you what I use, but my data is far from conclusive. I am, however, happy to report that it's left several paper targets in shreds!!!

 

[bwframe]

They say shot placement is king. They say that for a reason.

I have been known to carry lead round nose or, heaven forbid, LSWC range loads. In the absence of a reliability tested defense load, I choose to rely upon known reliability and known accuracy.

I mean, hits in the bread basket and brain box always trump misses and marginal hits, right? Especially when we're talkin' big bore, right?

 

[mospeada]

I doubt anyone can truthfully say what the "Best" round is as there really isn't any studies about how well any ammunition penetrates actual bodies for the obvious reason that the study wouldn't have any volunteers! Even if they were able to determine what rounds are used in real life shootings, there isn't much control over the many variables of a gunfight to gain any meaningful data.

So we are left with what subjective data we can gleen from shooting ballistics gel both bare and through barriers. The FBI has certain criteria that most folks will point to as being the best compromise in place of actual data. Then you get the manufacturers doing their own thing and emphasizing their round's strengths over other manufacturers. Then there is downright myth, typically spurred on by the internet.

With all this info, who the hell knows what the best round is? Nobody, that's who. We are all just making decisions based on the information we have and justifying it in our own way. That's not a slam, that's just the way it is.

I believe the best advice anyone can give you is to stick with a manufacturer that has a reputation of producing reliable ammunition. Test it in your guns, if it won't function 100% after a couple hundred rounds, forget it and move to the next ammo. Once it functions, was it accurate, can you put the shots where you need to in a hurry? If so, you've probably got a winner. If not, move on and try something else.

Just remember, it HAS to FUNCTION when TSHTF and you HAVE to be able to put the shots where they need to go. THEN it becomes important that the round penetrates sufficiently and expands properly.

 

[dom1104]

I have been known to carry lead round nose or, heaven forbid, LSWC range loads. In the absence of a reliability tested defense load, I choose to rely upon known reliability and known accuracy.

I mean, hits in the bread basket and brain box always trump misses and marginal hits, right? Especially when we're talkin' big bore, right?

In the absence of a reliability tested defense load... that would be the way to go of course.

I would try to fill that absence asap tho. Expanding bullets really do increase the wound substantially.

And stacking the deck as much as possible in your favor is of course the reason we all carry a gun.

Is that even how to spell absence?

 

[Dave Doehrman]

They say shot placement is king. They say that for a reason. The .45 is not magic.

The original question was "Need advice on the best .45 round for personal protection"

In my opinion, the best round is the one that functions flawlessly in your weapon. It's the round that you are confident with. It's the round that you practice with and know where it will impact. I agree with VUPDBLUE that shot placement is the key and there are no magic bullets. I fire 100 - 200 rounds of .45 ACP each week and I use S&B 230 gr FMJ because I can afford to shoot that ammo. There is no way I could afford to shoot CorBon or HydraShock or any of the other Personal Defense rounds out there on the market in those quantities.

I don't rely on the hottest, best expanding or deepest penetrating round on the market. I depend on practice, round placement and confidence in my weapon - ammo combination. I see it in the guns shops all the time; a new gun owner buys a .45 and then wants 1 or two boxes of Personal Defense ammo. They will probably go home, load the mags and depend on that combo to protect their home and family without ever firing a round. I wouldn't carry any new .45 without firing at least 500 or so rounds through it to check for function and reliability.

In a defensive / combat situation, if you place 2-3 .45 ACP rounds in the center of the body mass, I don't think it makes much difference to the perp if he gets hit with a hollow point, TAP or FMJ bullet.

 

[SSGSAD]

They say shot placement is king. They say that for a reason. The .45 is not magic.

I agree, 100%, someone, once said that a HIT, with a .22, was better than a miss, with anything bigger, makes sense, to me...
However, as usual, there is a lot of good info, HERE !!!!!
Buy, as many different boxes, of ammo, as you can afford, and go shoot them, if you need to take someone with you, have them make notes, first is functioning, second, is accuracy, then narrow the amount down, to the 2-3 most accurate, and those, that function flawlessly, IN YOUR SPECIFIC FIREARM.... then go shoot at water filled milk jugs, and see what expands, and WALA, YOU, have just found YOUR "best" defense round, for your gun, to protect YOUR family .....
and remember, you heard it here, FIRST !!!!!

 

[NIFT]

Every time there is a discussion of defensive handgun ammunition choice, at least one person (usually, several) bring up shot placement.

Both play parts in physiological incapacitation, but they are independent of each other. For example, shot placement doesn't depend on whether a .45 ACP bullet is a lead SWC or a JHP.

Similarly, choosing a particular .45ACP round doesn't depend on where we intend to aim.

As another example, I have never seen nor heard of defensive handgun training where shot placement changes depending on the load.

Best to keep shot placement out as a selection criterion for handgun ammunition choice.

Truly excellent information here on ammunition selection, in the first "sticky" threads:

Terminal Ballistic Information - M4Carbine.net Forums

 

[Bendrx]

Any large cavity HP filled with cyanide and then sealed shut with good wax. What? I'm serious here...it's good stuff...just um...doubt it's legal.

I carry 230gr Golden Sabres, can't say they're the bets, but I have them so they're the best I have. I doubt there is a best as has been mentioned a few times already...well see above for the "best".