Need some help with AC please!!

[SCAR]

Need some help with AC please!! Update page 3

I posted a year or 2 ago about issues with my AC and got some great advise so I’m hoping for the same this time.

Bought the house 5 years ago and every year the ac is out I’m frustrated beyond words this time. So any help would be greatly appreciated.
System is approximately 9-10yrs old

Outside unit
Trane XL16i

Inside unit
Trane XV80

Zone control
Arzel heat pump pro Trans-40Vars

house is approximately 3800sq feet and in 4 zones.

5 years ago I moved in and the coils were bad and needed replaced $1800
4 years ago outside compressor went out and needed replaced $1200
3 years ago no Freon and had to be recharged $500 with leak detector. No leaks found
last year no Freon and needed replaced $500 with a different type of leak detector. No leaks found
This year no air again so I’ve done a little digging and found.

outside unit coming on, at least the fan is but can’t tell if the compressor is.
Inside found that the air in the assembly with the coils is 47 but no air even blowing from the vents. Let the system run for awhile and found the valve that takes the line from the outside unit is ice cold and makes a hissing sound, only the bottom coil seems to be cold and it’s got ice build up on that coil and the rest are still room temp.

I can see the fan inside spinning but it’s not moving any air out of the vents. Tried in 2 different zones. I don’t know if it’s a two stage fan and should kick into 2td stage to push the air harder or not?

Does what I describe sound like low Freon again? I’m concerned becuase the valve is icing up and making a hissing noise (I can email a video).

Ive used the same company that installed the system originally becuase trane only warranted to the original owner but the company wrote up parts as warranty work so they just charge me labor. But after 5 years in a row I’m getting really angry about an expensive system needing work every year and this year money is tight for our family so it hurts really bad.

any advise or help would be appreciated
thanks
Tim

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Sounds like leak to me since they’ve been out the past several years for the same problem. Ice forming on the evaporator could be low air flow, low refrigerant charge, or a restriction somewhere in the system. Low airflow out of the vents could be because of the iced up evaporator or a damper issue with the zone system. Obviously it has a leak because it’s been charged for several years and they haven’t been able to find it, which is bull by the way. If a system has a leak, find it. That’s very poor service if they’re telling you that they didn’t find it and then billing you to gas it up every summer.

 

[churchmouse]

Cp is correct. Evaporater is froze over due to low charge. Let fan run in on position with system function switch off. No heat no cool. It will take a few hours to clear the coil of the ice.
I am not being a smart guy but this is a cycle with no end unless the leak is found and repaired. If it is an R-22 system get it charged and start saving to get a new system put in.

Seriously. This cycle will not end.

 

[scott delaney]

if filters are clean and all registers are open check zone dampers. the hissing is probably tv trying to equalize. sounds like air flow issue. and 500$ each time is a rip off

 

[churchmouse]

if filters are clean and all registers are open check zone dampers. the hissing is probably tv trying to equalize. sounds like air flow issue. and 500$ each time is a rip off

Have you priced the current cost of R-22. Not saying this is not a serious gouge but my cost on a can (30#s) has me charging $300 to top one off and scour for the leak. That pays for the Refr. and my time.

I do not know who the service company is they are using but I have seen this a lot. If you find the leak no service call in the spring.
If the coils were replaced they were not leaking as the issue continues. Sounds like a standard hose job.

 

[ghitch75]

others down here are charging $100.00 a pound for R-22.....heard of places in indy charging $150.00 a pound for the first pond then $100.00 for each pound after that.....

too....had one company down here that would tell people there Freon would go bad and would have to be replaced every year....

 

[SCAR]

Yes filters clean, checked each zones damper and they are all open.
This is a new system 8-9yrs old and a very expensive set up so no way do I want to replace it.
I know there is a leak somewhere and I’m guessing the first year the coils went out from freezing due to low Freon, then the next year it froze back to the compressor and it went out due to lack of Freon. And the past 2 years it has been low but I stopped running it after finding it it cooling so no major damage.
The company that did the instal and repairs is considered one of the best in the area but they are not fixing the issue that’s causing everything else to go wrong. There is a leak and they are not finding it.

 

[ghitch75]

i wish you where closer i could find the leak.....i have found leaks when other company's couldn't find them.....

you see any oil around any of lineset or service valves?

 

[SCAR]

The first year they added Freon they used UV leak detector and checked with lights and said no leak. Last year they used another kind told me it would leave a neon green power. They checked that day and said no leaks and I tried my best to check over last summer and found no power. Was hoping that the leak sealed they added did the job but it obviously didn’t.

If anyone one is close to NW Indiana that does this I would gladly pay for a real fix.
This is like a 15k set up by one of the best makers out there so I should be the coolest house on the block. And instead I’m dying here. Haha

 

[SCAR]

Ghitch75 does my line of thinking make sense that a leak caused the coils and condenser to go bad? Or am I projecting my anger they are incompetent and looking for a reason to be angry at them.

 

[scott delaney]

Cp is correct. Evaporater is froze over due to low charge. Let fan run in on position with system function switch off. No heat no cool. It will take a few hours to clear the coil of the ice.
I am not being a smart guy but this is a cycle with no end unless the leak is found and repaired. If it is an R-22 system get it charged and start saving to get a new system put in.

Seriously. This cycle will not end.

I know the cost of virgin r22 is out of this world on price, but 422d work almost as good and is less then half the price, I think options should be given

 

[ghitch75]

Ghitch75 does my line of thinking make sense that a leak caused the coils and condenser to go bad? Or am I projecting my anger they are incompetent and looking for a reason to be angry at them.

well i would have thought if they replaced the coils that is where the leak was.....three reason they would have replaced them....first....unrepairable leak....second.....would be smashed fins or missing fins......

third.....would be coil tubing plugged up inside


so why did they change your coils???

 

[churchmouse]

I know the cost of virgin r22 is out of this world on price, but 422d work almost as good and is less then half the price, I think options should be given

Almost is the key. I have had some success and some not so successful substitutions over the years. I just pass on that option. Depending on age of machine sometimes you end up just a tad short on Condensor. And if the machine is small or marginally sized and barely keeps up at 85* outdoor temp then cutting any eff. off is just not something I want to do. If you have success at that.....
If he is correct as to age it could be a 410A system.

 

[churchmouse]

well i would have thought if they replaced the coils that is where the leak was.....three reason they would have replaced them....first....unrepairable leak....second.....would be smashed fins or missing fins......

third.....would be coil tubing plugged up inside


so why did them change your coils???

Because it payed them to do it.

Glow light leak checks are not the way to go. Get an electronic (a decent one please) and learn to use it. Find the leak and move along.

 

[ghitch75]

Because it payed them to do it.

Glow light leak checks are not the way to go. Get an electronic (a decent one please) and learn to use it. Find the leak and move along.

i have found more leaks with just bubbles than with my yellowjacket detector....but they had to have gave a reason for changing the coils?.....leaking,plugged or something..

 

[churchmouse]

i have found more leaks with just bubbles than with my yellowjacket detector....but they had to have gave a reason for changing the coils?.....leaking,plugged or something..

Well, you and I have both seen this. Put your guys on a commission and the work just seems to be invented.

 

[jkaetz]

This is a new system 8-9yrs old and a very expensive set up so no way do I want to replace it.

someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that equipment doesn't last 20 plus years anymore, an 8-9 year system is over the hill and, while it shouldn't fail at this point, it shouldn't be expected to last another decade either.

My Dad just had the condenser and coil replaced on a 12 year old Carrier infinity system (carrier's high end) because it was going to need its second compressor replacement, they appeared to last roughly 6 years.

CP and CM won't steer you wrong, refrigerantb is like brake fluid, it doesn't evaporate or otherwise disappear, if it's gone, there is a leak. I also believe that running the system low on refrigerant will shorten its life.

 

[SCAR]

I was told that I caused the coils to need replaced. I ran the air for 2 days straight after I bought the house before I moved in. I didn’t know it was not cooling becuase we did not live here yet so they said they froze over and cracked so it was my fault. Made sense at the time. I was greatful they got the coils under warranty becuase trane only warranty to original buyer so it was like $1800 labor and recharge that I know is crazy high now

 

[ghitch75]

I was told that I caused the coils to need replaced. I ran the air for 2 days straight after I bought the house before I moved in. I didn’t know it was not cooling becuase we did not live here yet so they said they froze over and cracked so it was my fault. Made sense at the time. I was greatful they got the coils under warranty becuase trane only warranty to original buyer so it was like $1800 labor and recharge that I know is crazy high now

been doing this working since 1981 and have never seen a indoor coil crack or leak from being froze........i have seen heatpump outdoor coils get crushed from ice pushing up from the ground because the unit wasn't put on legs....

yours 22 or 410a?

 

[DocIndy]

someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that equipment doesn't last 20 plus years anymore, an 8-9 year system is over the hill and, while it shouldn't fail at this point, it shouldn't be expected to last another decade either.

My Dad just had the condenser and coil replaced on a 12 year old Carrier infinity system (carrier's high end) because it was going to need its second compressor replacement, they appeared to last roughly 6 years.

CP and CM won't steer you wrong, refrigerantb is like brake fluid, it doesn't evaporate or otherwise disappear, if it's gone, there is a leak. I also believe that running the system low on refrigerant will shorten its life.

Life expectancy of the equipment is almost a null point. All the manufacturers use the same compressor manufacturers (with the exception of Trane that makes their own) for residential equipment and most of the smaller components are all common as well. The key to a long life span is routine maintenance and most importantly, a quality install. Carrier Infinity/Bryant Evolution equipment is some top notch stuff when installed properly. If it keeps eating compressors, there is another larger problem that is being overlooked.

OP.... Have you checked the line set from the condenser to the indoor coil for joints/leaks/oil? Many are run through basements/crawl spaces and can develop a leak from rubbing against other items. $15k for a new system is highway robbery...even commercial rates/pricing aren't that bad. The local guy might have a god rep due to seeing ads/ trucks all over town. Doesn't mean his techs know which end of a screwdriver to hold. There are several around Indy like this...ARS/Airtron/Mr. Quick/Williams to name a few.