New to AR's and I hear it is a buyer's market...2.5 questions

[level0]

Thanks for all the considered replies, lots to digest here! This is just the kind of info I need.

I came into this thinking I'd build, and while I am still leaning that way a lot it sounds like the market is in my favor and I could buy a complete weapon for a really good price...one more thing to mull over.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Thanks for all the considered replies, lots to digest here! This is just the kind of info I need.

I came into this thinking I'd build, and while I am still leaning that way a lot it sounds like the market is in my favor and I could buy a complete weapon for a really good price...one more thing to mull over.

Go to palmetto state. Pick a compete lower and have it sent to an FFL. Pick a complete upper, Bcg, and charging handle. Have it sent to your house. Snap them together. Profit.

 

[IndyDave1776]

If assembling parts, watch what you buy, there some really low grade "Ho chi mein city" type parts floating around out there.

Cheaply made Asian parts or Vietnam surplus from too worn out to save rifles?

 

[tradertator]

In the current market, I just don't see much of a reason nor advantage to build when you can get a rifle with a factory warranty and better resale value for around the same build as a Franken'build. Even if you build one to your liking rather than a factory build in an attempt to save money, if you're anything like the majority of AR guys, you're going to end up changing it around periodically anyhow.

 

[bcannon]

Theres quite a few on Slickguns.com - the one that stood out for best bang for you buck was a Anderson DI freefloated keymod stainless barrel Moe butt w/Utg reddot for $549 - theres a few best under $500, $600, $700 & $800 ads - check it out, might help

 

[rmg200]

Palmetto State Armory have some smoking deals. Idk why, after building a rifle of theirs and a friend using their "build a rifle" kit, (which includes complete upper, just assemble lower) I would place them in line with any of my BCM's or MK18

 

[Mgderf]

In the current market, I just don't see much of a reason..

I find it therapeutic, both building and shooting my AR's.
It's my "group therapy".

 

[Trigger Time]

Palmetto State Armory have some smoking deals. Idk why, after building a rifle of theirs and a friend using their "build a rifle" kit, (which includes complete upper, just assemble lower) I would place them in line with any of my BCM's or MK18

No way no friggen way palmetto is the same quality as BCM. No way. This is pure wrong info.

 

[Trigger Time]

In the current market, I just don't see much of a reason nor advantage to build when you can get a rifle with a factory warranty and better resale value for around the same build as a Franken'build. Even if you build one to your liking rather than a factory build in an attempt to save money, if you're anything like the majority of AR guys, you're going to end up changing it around periodically anyhow.

yep my first choice would be to buy a factory complete rifle. If someone is building a $400 AR they've cut corners somewhere and will suffer later. Whether it's decreased resale value or function issues. It will be the case. Buy once cry once.
Buy a good name that stands behind their product whether it's a build or complete rifle purchase.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

No way no friggen way palmetto is the same quality as BCM. No way. This is pure wrong info.

In pure objective terms, probably. In terms of performance and longevity in the hands of most owners, probably a wash. I've got a Colt, DPMS, and PSA. I don't shoot past 100y, any variation in performance is much smaller than variations in my own performance, and with my round count of a couple hundred a month they'll all last until I'm too old to pull the trigger.

 

[level0]

Ok, this may deserve it's own thread, but I'm seeing ARs in various calibers - including 9mm. Other than relatively inexpensive ammo, what's the advantages and disadvantages of having a 9mm rifle? I'm sure distance is a factor, but I'm currently primarily motivated by home defense. Any thoughts?

 

[Trigger Time]

In pure objective terms, probably. In terms of performance and longevity in the hands of most owners, probably a wash. I've got a Colt, DPMS, and PSA. I don't shoot past 100y, any variation in performance is much smaller than variations in my own performance, and with my round count of a couple hundred a month they'll all last until I'm too old to pull the trigger.

ive been inside all those brands and BCM has them all beat as far as a battle rifle. Or competition. Basicly it will out last and out perform. I've seen a lot of palmetto parts so out of spec its rediculous

 

[Trigger Time]

I'm not loyal to any brand because of a name. I'm loyal to quality.

 

[Car Ramrod]

Not that it bothers me, but there is a slight bit of language towards the end.

[video=youtube;glk1qMbj7S0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glk1qMbj7S0[/video]

 

[NyleRN]

In the current market, I just don't see much of a reason nor advantage to build when you can get a rifle with a factory warranty and better resale value for around the same build as a Franken'build. Even if you build one to your liking rather than a factory build in an attempt to save money, if you're anything like the majority of AR guys, you're going to end up changing it around periodically anyhow.

Ok, I'm gonna have to interject here. I see a big reason to build over buying a factory rifle. For one it's at least $200 cheaper when you compare part for part. Honestly, who wants to spend $750+ and still have a wobbly M4 stock, ugly A2 grip, and cheap plastic handguard? If that's what I want then I'll buy a chf upper for $350 with a mil spec bcg and a $129 lower. Warranty, really? This design has been out since the 60's. Buy quality parts and don't worry about it. I'm no armorer but have built 8 complete rifles from stripped lowers and they all function just fine. And I actually shoot mine. It's always cheaper when you invest a little sweat equity. I have quality parts on all my rifles. If I were to buy a factory rifle with those parts on them, I'd have to spend KAC money.

 

[wsenefeld]

ive been inside all those brands and BCM has them all beat as far as a battle rifle. Or competition. Basicly it will out last and out perform. I've seen a lot of palmetto parts so out of spec its rediculous

I got a BCM in trade and only owned it for a few months. It didn't do anything better than my PSA parts, quality "appeared" the same, and my PSA parts have yet to fail (knock on wood). I probably shoot around 15k rifle rounds a year and have yet to break anything from PSA. BCM is a great company, but I don't see putting extra money in my rifle when I won't get an increased return.

 

[NyleRN]

I got a BCM in trade and only owned it for a few months. It didn't do anything better than my PSA parts, quality "appeared" the same, and my PSA parts have yet to fail (knock on wood). I probably shoot around 15k rifle rounds a year and have yet to break anything from PSA. BCM is a great company, but I don't see putting extra money in my rifle when I won't get an increased return.

And I do believe there's only 2 maybe 3 who forge all uppers for all the companies. Aero, cero, ??? And I believe FN makes barrels for BCM, Noveske, and PSA

 

[sig1473]

And I do believe there's only 2 maybe 3 who forge all uppers for all the companies. Aero, cero, ??? And I believe FN makes barrels for BCM, Noveske, and PSA

Just because FN makes CHF barrels for PSA, BCM & Noveske, it DOES NOT make them the same. FN makes them according to what each company specifies(i.e. gas port size, barrel contour, etc.). The barrels are then inspected and accepted/rejected. This is where a company's QC comes into play. What happens to all the barrels that are rejected by Noveske and BCM? Just food for thought.

P.S.-I have a PSA CHF and it shoots great but doesn't hold a candle to my 3 Noveske CHFs. YMMV

There a more than 3 companies that forge uppers as well.
A (splintered) = Anchor Harvey Aluminum

AF = Alcoa Forge

C AF = Colt Alco Forge

C MB = Colt / Mueller Brass

Cardinal (stylized) = Cardinal Forge

CH = Colt Harvey Aluminum

CK = Colt / Kaiser Aluminum

Circle/Crooshairs w/"AR" = ArmaLite

CM = Colt / Martin Marietta

D (stylized) = Diemaco

DK = Diemaco / Kaiser Aluminum

E = Emco

EK = EMCO/Kaiser

E MB = EMCO/Mueller Brass

F keyhole = FNMI / Cerro Forge

FA = FNMI / Anchor Harvey

FK = FNMI / Kaiser Aluminum

FM = FN/Martin Marietta

FMB = FNMI / Mueller Brass

Keyhole = Cerro Forge

L = Lewis Machine & Tool

LK = LAR / Kaiser Aluminum

LM = LAR / Martin Marietta

M (under diamond) = Mueller Industries

PA = Capco / Anchor Harvey

PM = Capco / Martin Marietta

 

[wsenefeld]

What happens to all the barrels that are rejected by Noveske and BCM? Just food for thought.

P.S.-I have a PSA CHF and it shoots great but doesn't hold a candle to my 3 Noveske CHFs.

They become PTAC barrels! Haha!

Night and day between a Noveske and PSA. 99.9% of the time, the Noveske will out perform the PSA, but at what cost to the user and did the user need/want that extra performance. My 16" PSA will average 3/10 on a 16" round plate at 750 yards with a 3.5x ACOG but I'm willing to bet a Noveske couldn't double that. I may have gotten a gem though.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

ive been inside all those brands and BCM has them all beat as far as a battle rifle. Or competition. Basicly it will out last and out perform. I've seen a lot of palmetto parts so out of spec its rediculous

Well, again, I don't dispute that. What I said is *most* users won't be able to take advantage of any additional performance nor put enough rounds through the gun to take advantage of the increased durability, and I include myself in that.