NFA regulations

[patience0830]

Maybe not, one of the evil options discussed during the run up to earlier AWBs was making "black rifles" also Tittle II (aka NFA).


In my case just wish could get on the also has an auto loading cannon lists ;-)

We used to have a cat named Tittle II.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Are you too lazy to do a Google search yourself?
let me help.
Let me google that for you






Constructive Possession: NFA Trusts vs Individual Ownership - NFA Gun Trust Lawyer Blog
UNITED STATES v. TURNBOUGH, No.

if you don't like the rules break them call the BATFE and tell them what you have done then give us an AAR on the results.

Hmmm... I read both links you provided and neither of them seem to have any relevance to the topic at hand... Unless I missed some critical detail the first from guntrustlawyer.com is talking about "constructive possession" in a way that I haven't seen it referrenced. It was in referrence to living in a home with people that have access to but aren't permitted to possess a specific Title II firearm...

The 2nd link is talking about overturning a sentencing for a guy that got charged with distributing coke...

What am I missing here? Is there any actual case law on the so called "constructive possession of an sbr" based wholey on the fact that the possessor had the parts necessary to build it? I've never seen it. I personally don't believe a person would ever be charged for such a thing unless its a "tack on charge" to other, worse charges... at that point you have some problems...

 

[JTinIN]

.....
What am I missing here? Is there any actual case law on the so called "constructive possession of an sbr" based wholey on the fact that the possessor had the parts necessary to build it? I've never seen it. I personally don't believe a person would ever be charged for such a thing unless its a "tack on charge" to other, worse charges... at that point you have some problems...

For the time being will run with the concept that you only get charged if this is found while you are doing something else wrong, this would also extend to those times that the police "thought" you were doing something else wrong and/or were looking at you under a microscope while considering what to charge you with (i.e. home defense shooting, a friend of a friend gets busted and says he knows this guy with illegal guns to get a deal, your girlfriend / wife has a bad break with you and to get even reports you, you are just having a bad day, etc.). After all is said and done, the only thing the two BATFE agents that were called in to look at all the "gun stuff" could find was a short upper with no good home ... so they run with that as really hate to have nothing to show for the time spent.

Bottom line have to figure the upside of having a short barrel with no other use (nearly none since you are not going to use it) vs the down side (possible legal fees).

Now if this is an AR type barrel, just buy a stripped lower and someday finish it into a pistol over the next 100 years ;-).

 

[karoozin]

The best advise I have read in this post. Wait until you have your approved form1 in hand, before you buy your short upper/barrel. This is the smart play

 

[CountryBoy19]

For the time being will run with the concept that you only get charged if this is found while you are doing something else wrong, this would also extend to those times that the police "thought" you were doing something else wrong and/or were looking at you under a microscope while considering what to charge you with (i.e. home defense shooting, a friend of a friend gets busted and says he knows this guy with illegal guns to get a deal, your girlfriend / wife has a bad break with you and to get even reports you, you are just having a bad day, etc.). After all is said and done, the only thing the two BATFE agents that were called in to look at all the "gun stuff" could find was a short upper with no good home ... so they run with that as really hate to have nothing to show for the time spent.

Bottom line have to figure the upside of having a short barrel with no other use (nearly none since you are not going to use it) vs the down side (possible legal fees).

Now if this is an AR type barrel, just buy a stripped lower and someday finish it into a pistol over the next 100 years ;-).

While I do agree that having a short upper or barrel with NO home is bad.


I disagree with those that say you can only have 1 short upper per SBR lower if you have other uncompleted lowers laying around. There is no case law to support this, and there is a way in which you can legally configure it, just not all of them at the same time. I'm sure someday we'll have case law, but until then, I'm going to have to agree to disagree.

A couple quick scenarios to propose here just to clarify what I'm saying.

#1 Say a person has multiple AR15 rifles and multiple lowers that are partially completed but not enough uppers for all of those lowers. They also have 1 registered SBR lower with 1 short upper. Would having a 2nd short barrel with no other bare upper receivers constitute constructive possession? A lot of people (especially on arfcom) would say it does because you could technical dismantle one of your completed 16+" uppers and put the short barrel on it to make it a 2nd SBR. But who is to say that barrel wasn't just a 2nd barrel for the 1 registered SBR? I don't think this is constructive possession.

#2 Say we add a 2nd short upper and there are still some partially completed lowers laying about that don't have mating uppers. Most people would say that is definitely constructive possession. I disagree as well. That 2nd upper can be legally configured, just can't have both short uppers legally configured at the same time. I don't' think this is constructive possession.

#3 No registered SBR lower. No registerd lower = no legal configuration for any short barrels/uppers. I would agree that is constructive possession if they aren't assembled together, or possession if they are assembled together.

IMHO, it's just a big gray area that many people want to steer very clear of. That doesn't mean it is illegal, just that people don't want to take the chance...

 

[ryknoll3]

While I do agree that having a short upper or barrel with NO home is bad.


I disagree with those that say you can only have 1 short upper per SBR lower if you have other uncompleted lowers laying around. There is no case law to support this, and there is a way in which you can legally configure it, just not all of them at the same time. I'm sure someday we'll have case law, but until then, I'm going to have to agree to disagree.

A couple quick scenarios to propose here just to clarify what I'm saying.

#1 Say a person has multiple AR15 rifles and multiple lowers that are partially completed but not enough uppers for all of those lowers. They also have 1 registered SBR lower with 1 short upper. Would having a 2nd short barrel with no other bare upper receivers constitute constructive possession? A lot of people (especially on arfcom) would say it does because you could technical dismantle one of your completed 16+" uppers and put the short barrel on it to make it a 2nd SBR. But who is to say that barrel wasn't just a 2nd barrel for the 1 registered SBR? I don't think this is constructive possession.

#2 Say we add a 2nd short upper and there are still some partially completed lowers laying about that don't have mating uppers. Most people would say that is definitely constructive possession. I disagree as well. That 2nd upper can be legally configured, just can't have both short uppers legally configured at the same time. I don't' think this is constructive possession.

#3 No registered SBR lower. No registerd lower = no legal configuration for any short barrels/uppers. I would agree that is constructive possession if they aren't assembled together, or possession if they are assembled together.

IMHO, it's just a big gray area that many people want to steer very clear of. That doesn't mean it is illegal, just that people don't want to take the chance...

If you have any other unassembled lowers, they could be built as pistols, giving you a legal home for the short barrels.