No Firearms Signs

[jamil]

Say my Baptist neighbor and I are in my yard talking. Jehovah’s Witnesses come up the driveway and my neighbor has no patience for “cults”. So he asks them to leave. I say, wait. This is my property and I’d rather be welcoming and polite. They can stay.

So who has the right of way here? A person has a right to own a business. A person doesn’t have a right to supercede the owner’s rights. It’s not a matter of being shielded from morals.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Say my Baptist neighbor and I are in my yard talking. Jehovah’s Witnesses come up the driveway and my neighbor has no patience for “cults”. So he asks them to leave. I say, wait. This is my property and I’d rather be welcoming and polite. They can stay.

So who has the right of way here? A person has a right to own a business. A person doesn’t have a right to supercede the owner’s rights. It’s not a matter of being shielded from morals.

Can you make your neighbor stay and listen?

This isn't about property rights, it's about being "forced to participate" and freedom of association, isn't that what the argument is? Nobody said the employee could make someone leave, etc. If the owner can say "no cake for gay wedding" can a employee baker also refuse to participate on making a cake that goes to a divorcee remarrying?

 

[jamil]

Can you make your neighbor stay and listen?

This isn't about property rights, it's about being "forced to participate" and freedom of association, isn't that what the argument is? Nobody said the employee could make someone leave, etc. If the owner can say "no cake for gay wedding" can a employee baker also refuse to participate on making a cake that goes to a divorcee remarrying?

No. I can’t make my neighbor stay. It’s his choice to stay according to my rules, or leave according to his conscience. My property rights supercede his rights.

This isn’t just about property rights or “forced to participate” or freedom of association. There are different kinds of rights involved. The underlying issue is what happens when rights collide.

You have a right to seek out service. You don’t have a right to force the service provider to serve you if they don’t want to. You have the right to pursue employment. That right doesn’t supercede your employers policies that you agreed to as a condition of employment. You don’t want to participate in making the remarriage cake? Ask your employer if you can do something else. It’s his business. Your employment in a sane state is “at will”. If you’re a valuable employee, and the employer isn’t an *******, you probably won’t have to choose between your job and your conscience.

 

[hunter]

I will do the trade

 

[jamil]

Trade what? Neighbors who don't like Jehova's Witnesses? Eh. I'll keep the one I have. He keeps his lawn mowed. And sometimes plows my driveway.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

So really, it's whatever argument supports the owner's decision in any particular situation? Almost feudal in its interpretation. Not really rights colliding, but who's rights.

Well, best I can say is see where it gets you as businesses collude against a stigmatized group... and that group might just be gun owners. I hope you don't get the system you think you want, it might just bite us all in the backside.

 

[jamil]

So really, it's whatever argument supports the owner's decision in any particular situation? Almost feudal in its interpretation. Not really rights colliding, but who's rights.

Well, best I can say is see where it gets you as businesses collude against a stigmatized group... and that group might just be gun owners. I hope you don't get the system you think you want, it might just bite us all in the backside.

Don’t think of the most extreme version of what I’m saying. I’m not talking about logical extremes. Just logical conclusions. When rights collide, who loses most? Someone’s gonna lose. Are there other businesses eager to have your business? Maybe that’s a logical way to decide this one. It’s reasonable to argue that it should be the one who has the most to lose. Today, that’s usually the business owner.