No weapons sign question.

[Blue Tile Spook]

You're better off having that discussion with MPD than BSU-PD, me thinks! MPD will actually listen for a minute before suggesting A) OC isn't legal or B) "Just cover it up. I don't want to argue. If the officer stood about 5'2" tall and was from MPD, I'd know exactly who you are referring to. I don't know the campus police well enough to guess. We moved out of Delaware Co. three years ago or so.

I've not had dealings with BSU-PD but have talked with a few MPD officers in a few different venues.

 

[IndyGunner]

You're better off having that discussion with MPD than BSU-PD, me thinks! MPD will actually listen for a minute before suggesting A) OC isn't legal or B) "Just cover it up. I don't want to argue. If the officer stood about 5'2" tall and was from MPD, I'd know exactly who you are referring to. I don't know the campus police well enough to guess. We moved out of Delaware Co. three years ago or so.

I've not had dealings with BSU-PD but have talked with a few MPD officers in a few different venues.

MPD are great and I respect them as professionals. bsuPD are pos azzholes and I wish they were all fired (with a flame thrower). BSU pd will try and write you for anything even if it isnt an actual law.

 

[rmabrey]

I was under the impression that IN law says that those signs mean nothing unless it is federal government property...

Its been debated to the end and back. Everyone interprets the law differently

 

[IndyGunner]

Its been debated to the end and back. Everyone interprets the law differently

So why hasn't anyone talked to a government official judge cop etc and received the 100% correct answer...?

 

[LPMan59]

So why hasn't anyone talked to a government official judge cop etc and received the 100% correct answer...?

keep OCing and disobeying the signs and hopefully you can be the test case

 

[IndyGunner]

You forgot the purple... lol

 

[Compatriot G]

Hmmmm, I have to pick my daughter up at Ball State this afternoon. Perhaps we need to make a trip to CBX Bookstore.

 

[sj kahr k40]

So why hasn't anyone talked to a government official judge cop etc and received the 100% correct answer...?

There is no 100% correct answer, law is written poorly, I have talked to many former prosecutors, judges and LEO's, none of them could recall a case in which someone was charged with trespassing without being asked to leave

 

[Fishersjohn48]

Are there metal detectors or are they going to search you when you enter? How in the heck are they going to legally find out if you are carrying concealed?

 

[IndyGunner]

No clue john. Ill be having a convo with management when I get some free time. It amazes me how stupid some business owners are. Hopefully I can help change their mind. If not I don't care, they charge too much and don't pay **** for returned books anyway.

 

[rmabrey]

So why hasn't anyone talked to a government official judge cop etc and received the 100% correct answer...?

There is no 100% correct answer, law is written poorly, I have talked to many former prosecutors, judges and LEO's, none of them could recall a case in which someone was charged with trespassing without being asked to leave

Pretty much what SJ said. You can ask a judge or prosecutor all you want, and their word doesnt mean squat when another prosecutor charges you. Untill the law is clearly rewritten or there is a case law to reference, we will all continue to disagree.

 

[DRob]

I think the solution is clear.

Here's how I see this kind of thread going.
This store clearly doesn't want your business as long as you are armed. They have the right to refuse your business because you're armed. You have the right to carry your gun where it's not prohibited....Assuming you have a LTCH.

Solution: I'll show them, I'll go spend my money there anyway!

Just don't spend you money there and everybody's happy!

 

[Eddie]

So why hasn't anyone talked to a government official judge cop etc and received the 100% correct answer...?

They can't give one. In order to have a 100% correct answer the following would have to occur:

-Store owner puts up a no guns sign
-guy carries a gun into the store
-cop somehow is called and makes the decision to arrest the gun carrier under the tresspass statute specifically for ignoring the sign
-prosecutor has to decide to actually file the charges
-gun owner decides to contest the charge in court
-judge makes a ruling
-either the prosecutor or the gun owner appeals the ruling
-appelate court hears the case and publishes an opinion

Until there is a published legal opinion from at least the appellate court all we have is a vaguely written law and a lot of opinions. A legal opinion by the applellate court carries the force of law and acts as precedent in other cases.

 

[IndyGunner]

Here's how I see this kind of thread going.
This store clearly doesn't want your business as long as you are armed. They have the right to refuse your business because you're armed. You have the right to carry your gun where it's not prohibited....Assuming you have a LTCH.

Solution: I'll show them, I'll go spend my money there anyway!

Just don't spend you money there and everybody's happy!

Well im not, I wish you would have read the previous posts. No disrespect.

 

[IndyGunner]

They can't give one. In order to have a 100% correct answer the following would have to occur:

-Store owner puts up a no guns sign
-guy carries a gun into the store
-cop somehow is called and makes the decision to arrest the gun carrier under the tresspass statute specifically for ignoring the sign
-prosecutor has to decide to actually file the charges
-gun owner decides to contest the charge in court
-judge makes a ruling
-either the prosecutor or the gun owner appeals the ruling
-appelate court hears the case and publishes an opinion

Until there is a published legal opinion from at least the appellate court all we have is a vaguely written law and a lot of opinions. A legal opinion by the applellate court carries the force of law and acts as precedent in other cases.

Thanks for the info! Id say my question has been answered.

 

[dholmtime]

I have been meaning to post something similiar but haven't thought about it. I was in TIS book store last week buying a few more books for my classes and my CCW was seen. There was no sign posted at TIS like there is at CBS. I had my firearm concealed but when I bent over to get my book off the bottom shelf a male employee had noticed my gun when my shirt lifted. He of course ran directly to his manager and told her I had a gun. So I was at the register paying for my books and the store manager asked me to step aside for a second. She first asks me if I was carrying a firearm. I said yes I am (EVERYONE looks at me). She responds with would you allow me to see your LTCH. I said yes you may. After about a minute or two of looking over my license she says it doesn't say anywhere that the firearm must be concealed. I respond with yes IN is an OC state. She says well I am sorry to have bothered you, my husband also carries but we are originally from FL and thought your firearm must always be concealed. Long story short that could have been a bad situation, but thanks to the ladies knowledge of lawfully carrying a firearm she didn't call the police before asking if I was licensed to carry it. I figure campus pd would go nuts over a firearm being that close to campus. Glad it worked out and I hope the employee that ran away will do some research on state laws and grow a pair.

 

[beclende]

Why worry about it......if they don't support your rights why support their business?

 

[Eddie]

I don't think that getting arrested for ignoring a no guns sign is likely, I think that it is much more likely that a person will be asked to leave. On the other hand I know that there are persons who OC as part of making a political statement about their second amendment rights. I wouldn't want someone zealous who is trying to make a point to think that they could never ever under any possible circumstances be arrested for ignoring a "no guns" sign. It would be remotely possible but it would also be possible that the prosecutor would refuse to file the charges or that a judge would order the case dismissed.

What I picture in my mind as a hypothetical would be an OCer/political activist in a town where several stores have "no guns" signs. He goes into the first store and walks around until the police are called. (I'm envisioning a manager that is too scared to go up and talk to him.) He gets asked to leave and then promptly goes to the next store and OCs until the police are called again. The process gets repeated all morning. By noon the police are being called to the tenth store. They place an exasperated call to the local prosecutor who looks up the tresspass statute and reads. "Hey, go ahead and arrest him and charge him with tresspassing."

 

[Sylvain]

you should go in there and inform the manager that everyone walking by has a concealed weapon

Yes I would just tell the manager that im have concealed weapons on me and ask if he still wants my money.
I dont think he would ask a custumer to leave the store.

Also in that case I leave a "no gun = no money" card to let them know how stupid their sign is.
Like if a criminal with a concealed weapon is not going to enter the place to rob it just because he sees the sign at the last minute.

 

[Sylvain]

I think it's been pretty well established that general "no weapons" signs don't carry the weight of law, though if you're asked to leave you have to.

Yep unless this sign is in a place where its illegal to carry weapons (well firearms anyways as you can even carry "weapons" in planes and such).
It's just pretty much illegal to carry only in places where they search you for weapons with metal detectors like airports, federal buildings and other places listed in the law.
In schools too but they dont always search you, in this case its still illegal to carry inside of course but you just keep in mind that if you can enter the building with a gun criminals can too (and they do like we sadly seen so many times with schools shootings).
In this case you just use your free will to decide what to do.