Not complaining about items cost.

[halfmileharry]

Everyone places value on their own possessions and it's as it should be.
No one else need agree.

 

[halfmileharry]

You do see some regional variation. Also, people who've apparently been unaware of the Internet and buy at Gander Mountain so they can pass those prices on to you. I've seen multiple guns listed here that I could get new cheaper at retail, particularly online.

Sort of on topic, I was poking around on gunbroker a few nights ago and saw a reasonable price on a LNIB P245. The title included both "LNIB" and "Mint" so I opened the add. Rust on the slide, obvious wear on the barrel indicating a reasonably high round count, etc. I don't think Sig shipped them with rust pitting on the slide, so I'm thinking the more accurate description would have been "well worn P245, but has the original stuff".

And, yes, Colts aren't that great. When they were in current production they weren't terribly popular at their price point, which is why they went out of production. They are pretty, though. Aesthetics and scarcity matters for a collectible.

I've bought a couple of guns off INGO lately that were advertised as "Unfired" and LNIB. Neither description was correct. I got what I wanted at the price I wanted to pay so I'm good to go with my decision. Descriptions do need to be accurate however.

 

[JJFII]

Everyone places value on their own possessions and it's as it should be.
No one else need agree.

totally agree. What we are laughing at and where the problem is that when a person de-values other peoples trade item and if you cant use that same logic on theirs.

 

[Beowulf]

I work for one of the worlds largest manufacturers. I can nearly guarantee that every single person who reads this has at least 3 items in their home, garage, boat or RV from one of my factories. The retail cost of an item is at a bear minimum 50% of what it cost from the factory. 70% is normally a good place to assume on most items, but some items are near 90%. It is rare to sell an item closer to what it cost to replace at the factory level.

While I agree with you on the ridiculousness of the person you were discussing the trade with, the statement you made in the quote shows a pretty fundamental misunderstanding of the market.

If I buy a product new at $100, it doesn't immediately become worth $50 on the secondary market, unless there is a ready supply of used items for $50. The only thing that inherently affects "worth" are the laws of supply and demand. Heck, there have been plenty of examples of companies selling products at one price, but demand is so high that on the secondary market, their values could be double or triple of the "new" selling price. The .22 LR shortage was a great example of this, or the pricing of the latest greatest gun fad, like the Keltec KSG when it was new. Keltec was selling them to dealers at a price such that they would retail for $750 to $800, but demand was so high, they were frequently selling for $1400 to $1500, if not from a gun dealer, then from someone who bought them near MSRP and wanted to flip them.

Now, if you amend your statement to say, that in your opinion, an item is worth 50% of brand new retail, the second it is sold, that's fine. Since, to you, it is only worth that. However, unless everyone else agrees, you are going to struggle to buy a used item at that price point.

 

[Expat]

I do enjoy watching an item priced well above what Midwest Gun in Mishawaka slowly sinking in price. It might be down to full retail in another week.

 

[JJFII]

While I agree with you on the ridiculousness of the person you were discussing the trade with, the statement you made in the quote shows a pretty fundamental misunderstanding of the market.

If I buy a product new at $100, it doesn't immediately become worth $50 on the secondary market, unless there is a ready supply of used items for $50. The only thing that inherently affects "worth" are the laws of supply and demand. Heck, there have been plenty of examples of companies selling products at one price, but demand is so high that on the secondary market, their values could be double or triple of the "new" selling price. The .22 LR shortage was a great example of this, or the pricing of the latest greatest gun fad, like the Keltec KSG when it was new. Keltec was selling them to dealers at a price such that they would retail for $750 to $800, but demand was so high, they were frequently selling for $1400 to $1500, if not from a gun dealer, then from someone who bought them near MSRP and wanted to flip them.

Now, if you amend your statement to say, that in your opinion, an item is worth 50% of brand new retail, the second it is sold, that's fine. Since, to you, it is only worth that. However, unless everyone else agrees, you are going to struggle to buy a used item at that price point.

No, I think what is going on here is my inability to express what I mean in written form.

People, ( in general) believe an items worth is less than what you paid for the item, unless there is a cultural demand...the Colt Python, a Hemi Cuda, some famous persons item...

Now when you are TRADING on Armslist, Craigslist, Shotgun News and Gun Broker or a forums board YOUR item is only worth __________ of the original purchase price, but MY item is God's gift to the world, hence it has lost no value from retail.

On a reality note, and this is where the 50%-70% rule comes in that I was speaking of. Your item only cost the factory that made it 50%-30% of what you paid. If my Factory in New Bern North Carolina, makes a _________ and we sell that item to a Dealer for $100, the Dealer sells it to you for $150... it cost us $30 to $50 to make.

Any item and every item in your home (generally speaking) cost 50% -70% more to buy then it cost the factory to make.

If I buy from my factory, I pay 50% off retail from the showroom floor. If I purchase a scratch and dent from the warehouse its at 70% of dealer cost. Dealers also buy from scratch and dent at 50% off showroom price...they charge customers 60% and make an easy 10%. That is because it actually cost my factory 25% of dealer cost to make... I am paying an extra 5% to my company for them to ship it to me and I pay for the warehouse to store those items.

Showroom cost = $100
My Employee price = $50

If I buy the same item that has a dent = $30

If a Dealer wants that same dented item = $50
The Dealer will sell it to you for $60...and you feel that is a good deal because you cant even see the blemish so why pay $100

 

[halfmileharry]

totally agree. What we are laughing at and where the problem is that when a person de-values other peoples trade item and if you cant use that same logic on theirs.

I'm following the whole thread and even though someone slams other's merchandise it doesn't change a thing. The only thing it changes is the opinion we have of those doing the slamming. It's all part of the barter process that I could do without in my life. BUT....it is what it is.
Lots of Dicks on both sides of the bartering.

 

[Beowulf]

No, I think what is going on here is my inability to express what I mean in written form.

People, ( in general) believe an items worth is less than what you paid for the item, unless there is a cultural demand...the Colt Python, a Hemi Cuda, some famous persons item...

Now when you are TRADING on Armslist, Craigslist, Shotgun News and Gun Broker or a forums board YOUR item is only worth __________ of the original purchase price, but MY item is God's gift to the world, hence it has lost no value from retail.

On a reality note, and this is where the 50%-70% rule comes in that I was speaking of. Your item only cost the factory that made it 50%-30% of what you paid. If my Factory in New Bern North Carolina, makes a _________ and we sell that item to a Dealer for $100, the Dealer sells it to you for $150... it cost us $30 to $50 to make.

Any item and every item in your home (generally speaking) cost 50% -70% more to buy then it cost the factory to make.

If I buy from my factory, I pay 50% off retail from the showroom floor. If I purchase a scratch and dent from the warehouse its at 70% of dealer cost. Dealers also buy from scratch and dent at 50% off showroom price...they charge customers 60% and make an easy 10%. That is because it actually cost my factory 25% of dealer cost to make... I am paying an extra 5% to my company for them to ship it to me and I pay for the warehouse to store those items.

Showroom cost = $100
My Employee price = $50

If I buy the same item that has a dent = $30

If a Dealer wants that same dented item = $50
The Dealer will sell it to you for $60...and you feel that is a good deal because you cant even see the blemish so why pay $100

I follow that, but unless everyone has the same access to employee pricing that you do, it's irrelevant to the conversation on the pricing on the secondary market. The same goes for dealer pricing. That's because neither the company, nor the dealer, are going to sell a new item for their own cost, as they would go out of business.

So, in your example, showroom cost is $100. Certainly a handful of folks such as yourself can get it for the employee pricing of $50. Even more dealers can get it at the dealer cost of, say, $70. However, for the vast majority of the people (thousands and thousands of them them for every 1 employee or dealer), the price is going to be $100 new. Because the employee pricing and dealer pricing is unavailable to the open market general public, it doesn't affect the primary market.

Now, people want to resell their used item. They decide to charge $80 for practically brand new, mint condition item. Since a purchaser on the secondary market still cannot get the item for your employee price of $50 and the dealer price of $70, they still might consider $80 a good deal and buy it.

Basically, what I'm saying is that the pricing on a closed market that is unavailable to 99.99% of the public doesn't have any effect on the secondary market at all. Everyone (should) know that nothing they buy is priced at the actual cost of manufacturing. No one would be able to stay in business if they did that. So, it's really irrelevant what the markup on that item is, until another manufacturer/service provider/etc decides to offer the same or comparable product for less, accepting a potentially lower profit margin in exchange for selling more units or the demand for the item drops and the original seller simply can't find anyone willing to pay their demanded price.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Now when you are TRADING on Armslist, Craigslist, Shotgun News and Gun Broker or a forums board YOUR item is only worth __________ of the original purchase price, but MY item is God's gift to the world, hence it has lost no value from retail.

It's psychological, and actually rooted in survival instincts. Humans are "programmed" to hate loss more than they love gain. From a survival standpoint, it makes perfect sense because it minimizes risk. As a result, we become emotionally attached to our stuff and because of that estimate it's value higher. Since I have no emotional attachment to something I've yet to acquire, it doesn't enter into my value calculation.

 

[russc2542]

It's psychological, and actually rooted in survival instincts. Humans are "programmed" to hate loss more than they love gain. From a survival standpoint, it makes perfect sense because it minimizes risk. As a result, we become emotionally attached to our stuff and because of that estimate it's value higher. Since I have no emotional attachment to something I've yet to acquire, it doesn't enter into my value calculation.

Well put.

My story is a guy (from Armsist) that wanted to trade his glock for basically max retail for my FN at the lowest (non-stocking) website minus use. After initially telling him no I didn't want to trade unless it had a bunch of cash in my favor because I don't want a glock anyway, gave him an inflated number and explained it was simply because I simply didn't want the glock more than I didn't want the FN. Even used the phrase "you'd have to pay me to take it". He kept on about how crazy I was even after explaining it again. After that, of course, came the completely unrelated insults and whatnot. Sorry dude, I just sit back laughing at it and throw gas on the fire lol.

 

[Alpo]

Wait til the guys who bought H&K P30's at close to $1,000 attempt a trade against anything else. True retail now is around $600. Not quite as bad as the $2,000 Colt 6920's.

 

[JettaKnight]

Everyone places value on their own possessions and it's as it should be.
No one else need agree.

Is it really "as it should be", or is it irrational. (maybe you think it should be irrational, I dunno).

[video=youtube;bvjoIAhaIxI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvjoIAhaIxI[/video]

 

[Expat]

Wait til the guys who bought H&K P30's at close to $1,000 attempt a trade against anything else. True retail now is around $600. Not quite as bad as the $2,000 Colt 6920's.

The LGS has had the 6920 and 6720 models under a grand a few times now. I think the 6720s are like $800 this week. I should have gone and bought one.

 

[bgcatty]

You don’t have to go far to see this phenomenon. Just go to the INGO classifieds to see ridiculous asking prices for used firearms. There have even been some classified ads with prices for used commonly available guns that are at or very close to new prices available from places like Buds Guns. Simply silly. Why buy used when you can buy new for a few dollars more!

 

[gregkl]

You don’t have to go far to see this phenomenon. Just go to the INGO classifieds to see ridiculous asking prices for used firearms. There have even been some classified ads with prices for used commonly available guns that are at or very close to new prices available from places like Buds Guns. Simply silly. Why buy used when you can buy new for a few dollars more!

I agree if the new is the same as the old. In some firearms people might put more value on the old. Like for instance a pre-lock S&W revolver.

Also some people might prefer to buy "off the grid" and not fill out the form.

 

[halfmileharry]

Is it really "as it should be", or is it irrational. (maybe you think it should be irrational, I dunno).

[video=youtube;bvjoIAhaIxI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvjoIAhaIxI[/video]

I only go by the value I personally place on something. Some I think is ridiculous and some I think is a good deal for me.
To each his own values.

 

[Hohn]

For the most part, I don't care what someone thinks something is worth. Who am I to tell them they are crazy?

The and rule the OP posted about something used automatically being worth 50% is pretty bogus. Used values depend on the product and the buyer, a rule like that is not just wrong, but useless too.

I have to confess that I have a special animosity to a local store that rhymes with "Bunhams" because they seem to think that the CCI standard velocity rounds on their endcap-- complete with Merry Christmas 2016 packaging-- are still worth $7 a box for 50rds.

But don't worry, they have a "low price guarantee."

 

[JJFII]

For the most part, I don't care what someone thinks something is worth. Who am I to tell them they are crazy?

The and rule the OP posted about something used automatically being worth 50% is pretty bogus. Used values depend on the product and the buyer, a rule like that is not just wrong, but useless too.

I have to confess that I have a special animosity to a local store that rhymes with "Bunhams" because they seem to think that the CCI standard velocity rounds on their endcap-- complete with Merry Christmas 2016 packaging-- are still worth $7 a box for 50rds.

But don't worry, they have a "low price guarantee."

Just to be clear here... the "OP"...me... didnt say something used is automatically worth 50%. I am saying as a rule the item COST 50% to 70% LESS TO MANUFACTURE. If I made it sound like things automatically dropped in value, that was not my intent.

My intent was to showcase how a person can justify DE-valuing another persons property simply because they also know this is true.

 

[Hohn]

I dont care how much a person is asking for their item. That is their business. I ask for nearly retail for my items as well.

Have you ever noticed how people value their items based on their feelings and not its actual worth? I just think its funny how they come up with a price and a value of another persons item.

Unless your item has a Lifetime- no questions asked- warranty that is transferred to the new owner, its worth 50% of what you paid. .

Just to be clear here... the "OP"...me... didnt say something used is automatically worth 50%. I am saying as a rule the item COST 50% to 70% LESS TO MANUFACTURE. If I made it sound like things automatically dropped in value, that was not my intent.

My intent was to showcase how a person can justify DE-valuing another persons property simply because they also know this is true.

I definitely interpreted the first part as saying everything without a transferrable lifetime warranty is worth half of its new selling price just be virtue of being used.

 

[Gabriel]

I have to confess that I have a special animosity to a local store that rhymes with "Bunhams" because they seem to think that the CCI standard velocity rounds on their endcap-- complete with Merry Christmas 2016 packaging-- are still worth $7 a box for 50rds.

But don't worry, they have a "low price guarantee."

Yes. I never understood the "low price guarantee" since everything in there costs far more than I can get it anywhere else.