NRA Show

[Coach]

I attended the NRA show for the first time on Saturday. I saw several great shooters giving demonstrations. (Todd Jarett, Travis Tomasie, and Max Michel) Everyone of these guys is a USPSA shooter, but Max spent 10 years in the Army shooting competition and training soldiers. Todd does train many LEO's every year. All of these guys talked about grip in their sessions. It does not matter if we are talking self-defense shooting or competition. Grip matters in both places. It also matters whenever we are shooting more than one shot. Hell, It can help with one shot. Who cares about just shooting one shot with no context or consequences?

Max made a great point. If the techniques he learned shooting against the best shooters in the world worked, then those same techniques would work on the street or in Iraq. The US Army agreed and that is why Max and Travis spent so much time training other soldiers on technique.

I am not expecting to change the minds of folks on here who already know the truth about all aspects of shooting. But I was chucking to myself while listening to a champion shooter explain how things such as grip are important and matter.

 

[bwframe]

But, but, but...

...those guys that never have a score sheet for accountability know better.

 

[Spazzmodicus]

First show for me too. It was a blast. I suspect I carried out at least 40 pounds of brochures and stuff. Lot's of free reading material on new products, etc.

Wish I could have stayed longer but the guy I rode with had to get back Saturday night. Missed Larry the Cable Guy and other cool stuff, but it was still well worth the trip for what I did get to see. Plus I shook Ted Nugents hand...heh heh.

 

[Jackson]

But, but, but...

...those guys that never have a score sheet for accountability know better.

Some of them have tested (or continue to test) their techniques in much less forgiving environments. Competition is not the only way to prove these concepts or build skills. There is more than one road.

 

[the1kidd03]

 

[dwh79]

I loved the show as well. It is my 5th show.

 

[bwframe]

Some of them have tested (or continue to test) their techniques in much less forgiving environments. Competition is not the only way to prove these concepts or build skills. There is more than one road.

I am sure this is true. However, without a doubt, the score sheet does not lie. Instant undeniable accountability. Proof, so to speak.

 

[Jackson]

I am sure this is true. However, without a doubt, the score sheet does not lie. Instant undeniable accountability. Proof, so to speak.

Proof of what? Proof that you can play the game well. Before you place all your faith in the score sheet, you need to understand two things: what that score is measuring and what needs to be measured to accomplish your goal. A person's score says nothing about their teaching ability, knowledge of real-world tactics and techniques, or the combat effectiveness of those techniques. It doesn't measure the techniques, tactics and strategies you employ to keep yourself from getting shot in lieu of putting lead on the target. It only measures a composite of how quickly and accurately you can put lead on target, usually forsaking everything else. Something that is largely a product of how much planning you put in to it, and how you decide to move through the course.

Does a person have to be an amazing shooter to be a world class IPSC competitor? Sure they do. But you can also take two equal shooters, one who is experienced with the game, and one who is not and put them head to head. The person who is familiar with the rules, strategies and game-specific skills will have the better score. With these kind of games, the game strategy and game-specific skills play a big part in what comes out on that score sheet.

I am not saying there is not value in competition. I am not saying that serious IPSC/IDPA/Whatever shooters are not awesome shooters. There is much to be learned from them and their contribution to the advancement of shooting technique is unquestioned. Competition builds speed and accuracy. It is a good way to add pressure and test yourself. But it is not everything. Just because someone chooses not to compete does not mean they are not worthy of your attention, or their skills and contributions are not valid.

 

[bwframe]

Proof of what? Proof that you can play the game well. Before you place all your faith in the score sheet, you need to understand two things: what that score is measuring and what needs to be measured to accomplish your goal. A person's score says nothing about their teaching ability, knowledge of real-world tactics and techniques, or the combat effectiveness of those techniques. It doesn't measure the techniques, tactics and strategies you employ to keep yourself from getting shot in lieu of putting lead on the target. It only measures a composite of how quickly and accurately you can put lead on target, usually forsaking everything else. Something that is largely a product of how much planning you put in to it, and how you decide to move through the course.

Does a person have to be an amazing shooter to be a world class IPSC competitor? Sure they do. But you can also take two equal shooters, one who is experienced with the game, and one who is not and put them head to head. The person who is familiar with the rules, strategies and game-specific skills will have the better score. With these kind of games, the game strategy and game-specific skills play a big part in what comes out on that score sheet.

I am not saying there is not value in competition. I am not saying that serious IPSC/IDPA/Whatever shooters are not awesome shooters. There is much to be learned from them and their contribution to the advancement of shooting technique is unquestioned. Competition builds speed and accuracy. It is a good way to add pressure and test yourself. But it is not everything. Just because someone chooses not to compete does not mean they are not worthy of your attention, or their skills and contributions are not valid.

I am not expecting to change the minds of folks on here who already know the truth about all aspects of shooting. But I was chucking to myself while listening to a champion shooter explain how things such as grip are important and matter.

 

[Jackson]

I am not talking about grip, or any specific technique, or even competition and its applicability to the real world. I am referring to your implication that without a score sheet a person has no accountability or proof of skill.

 

[the1kidd03]

Oh the irony.

 

[David Rose]

Jackson,

Proof of what? Proof that you can play the game well. Before you place all
your faith in the score sheet, you need to understand two things: what that
score is measuring and what needs to be measured to accomplish your goal. A
person's score says nothing about their teaching ability, knowledge of
real-world tactics and techniques, or the combat effectiveness of those
techniques. It doesn't measure the techniques, tactics and strategies you employ
to keep yourself from getting shot in lieu of putting lead on the target. It
only measures a composite of how quickly and accurately you can put lead on
target, usually forsaking everything else. Something that is largely a product
of how much planning you put in to it, and how you decide to move through the
course.

Couldn't agree more. The palning and tactics used in a match are different than combative tactictics and a skill unto themselves.

But you can also take two equal shooters, one who is experienced with the
game, and one who is not and put them head to head.

Please find me one. Yes just one shooter who has organicly through no influence from competition become the equal of todays top USPSA GM's.

Generaly people who want to be good look at other good shooters and learn everything they can. Those that train in a vacume tend to think they are alot better than they actualy are.

The score sheet is many things, but it is not biased.

I am not talking about grip, or any specific technique, or even competition and
its applicability to the real world. I am referring to your implication that
without a score sheet a person has no accountability or proof of skill.

I don't need the score sheet to see how good the shooter is. They need the score sheet for their own development.

 

[HICKMAN]

I am sure this is true. However, without a doubt, the score sheet does not lie. Instant undeniable accountability. Proof, so to speak.

I saw that you won the SS division yesterday.

Were you the best SS shooter there?

The scoresheet says you was.

 

[lovemachine]

I need to try my hand at shooting sports. I'm thinking it could teach me A LOT...

 

[HICKMAN]

I need to try my hand at shooting sports. I'm thinking it could teach me A LOT...

It's hard to find a better way to have fun and get lots of trigger time. Being able to shoot on the move is rewarding and builds confidence as well. Saw a guy in a match video last week clear a plate rack... while walking.


Confidence is huge in all aspects of shooting. Coach (and others) can teach one the proper technique and how it should be done, but getting shooters to have confidence in what they are doing comes with experience. Shooting with guys like Coach is cool because they point out times when one could have been moving while shooting, backing out of an area or just addressing a row of targets. I made it a point last year when I saw Coach to tell him that "I shot on the move today, didn't hit all the targets, but I'm working on it". As my confidence through-out the season built, I got better. I'm still fat and broken down in the knees, but every little bit helps and I'm a much better shooter because of it.

 

[lovemachine]

It's hard to find a better way to have fun and get lots of trigger time. Being able to shoot on the move is rewarding and builds confidence as well. Saw a guy in a match video last week clear a plate rack... while walking.


Confidence is huge in all aspects of shooting. Coach (and others) can teach one the proper technique and how it should be done, but getting shooters to have confidence in what they are doing comes with experience. Shooting with guys like Coach is cool because they point out times when one could have been moving while shooting, backing out of an area or just addressing a row of targets. I made it a point last year when I saw Coach to tell him that "I shot on the move today, didn't hit all the targets, but I'm working on it". As my confidence through-out the season built, I got better. I'm still fat and broken down in the knees, but every little bit helps and I'm a much better shooter because of it.

^^Gives me even more of a reason to give shooting sports a try....

 

[Coach]

^^Gives me even more of a reason to give shooting sports a try....

Come on out to the Instructional League at RCC on the 28th. Just send me and email and you are in.

 

[Coach]

I saw that you won the SS division yesterday.

Were you the best SS shooter there?

The scoresheet says you was.

He was yesterday. Any given day it can happen. Wild Bill Hickock was killed a lesser gunman.

 

[ptt811]

I know there were a few times Sunday I just grabbed the gun wrong right off the start and it was bad. You guys are right ...Grip is everything. Its worth it for me to just take the few seconds and get a hold of the gun right... The accuracy really improves. And thanks to the experienced shooters who pointed that out... Im not above criticism when I need it and at the stage im in I need a lot.

 

[rhino]

I want to go to the NRA convention someday, but I don't want to do all the walking.

Maybe I'll get one of those jazzy/lark/etc scooters and weather the scorn and derision of yet another fat guy riding a scooter!