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Nursing Home Care and Personal Savings
- Thread starter BE Mike
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What these guys said about an elder law attorney.
There are ways to protect certain assets and they can help you. Ultimately, most of it is going to be drained to pay the nursing home if the stay is long term.
This is a reminder to all of use to consider long-term care insurance. If you can qualify and there is a chance you might have go to a nursing home, it will reduce once source of grief and anxiety. May father dismissed the idea decades ago when I recommended that he consider policies for both of them, but in the end he was wrong.
There are ways to protect certain assets and they can help you. Ultimately, most of it is going to be drained to pay the nursing home if the stay is long term.
This is a reminder to all of use to consider long-term care insurance. If you can qualify and there is a chance you might have go to a nursing home, it will reduce once source of grief and anxiety. May father dismissed the idea decades ago when I recommended that he consider policies for both of them, but in the end he was wrong.
As a heads up for those with parents not yet at the point they need this type of care...
The "authorities" will look at accounts and transfers prior to the person being put into a facility. So, you can't say, "Gramps gave everyone $10K before he went into the home and now he's broke!" because they will find that paper trail.
Plan ahead!!!
The "authorities" will look at accounts and transfers prior to the person being put into a facility. So, you can't say, "Gramps gave everyone $10K before he went into the home and now he's broke!" because they will find that paper trail.
Plan ahead!!!
unless it changed its a 5 year look back, and they can make u give it back. (remember its the government) at least thats the way it was in 2009.
hoosierdoc
Freed prisoner
I don't see the glory in taking someone's assets and then making your neighbors pay for their care.
You can gift someone up to $14K per year without penalties to either party.
Signing over assets larger than that have issues with medicaid, but it can be complicated and sometimes worth it based on the time frame.
That's a good point, but is it that simple? What about the metric butt-tonne load of taxes some pay over their lifetimes who use very little if any public resources up to that point?
Long term care insurance is just like that. Some people pay in many thousands and never use it, while someone who just got it, uses up the monies that the first person paid. It's much more complicated than you make it out to be and all family situations aren't like 1950's tv shows. Also I must point out that charging over $70,000 per year for nursing care seems excessive, as do other major medical costs. Sharing a room with just a curtain for privacy, isn't living the life of Riley. For most of us middle income folks, a major illness or accident can wipe out a lifetime of personal assets. I think that only someone who has been or is the primary care giver of an elderly person, with greatly diminished capabilities, can understand. I'm not complaining. I learned a long time ago that fair was a place to go to to ride the rides and eat cotton candy; it's not life.
It may seem excessive, but break that down per day, per employee, food, cleaning, laundry, etc. These things don't pay for themselves.
And yes, I have been the family who paid that amount per year, for both Grandparents. There was nothing left when they passed. I wasn't upset, I was glad they had the care they needed, that I nor my family could provide. I had my memories.
If the funds ran out long before their passing and Medicaid took over, do you think that they would have received the same level of care? BTW, you are a very good person. I've heard that most old folks don't have people who will take care of their personal business affairs (paying bills, selling their home, keeping up with their prescriptions, moving them, et al) take them to doctors' appointments or even visit them regularly when they finally need nursing care.
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Do you think it is immoral for a person to hire a tax lawyer or other tax specialist and pay as little in taxes that the law allows? I had an accounting professor who said, "You should never evade paying taxes, but you should avoid paying them. One is illegal and the other is smart!"
For 4 years now, my wife has been caring for her mother, who is a quadriplegic requiring nursing care. She starts at 7 am and finishes at 10 PM. Every single day.
Although she did score a couple of days off this past winter when I had to rush her to the hospital for a kidney stone, and our daughter-in-law (a nurse) was able to fill in for a couple of days.
I watch her do this every day, wondering where our life went. And she's not doing it for that big payday when they settle the modest estate. She's doing it because she loves her mother and she knows the answer to Mike's question.
A lot of words come to my mind when I think about my wife and her mom, and 35 years of dealing with doctors, hospitals, insurance, and government bureaucracies, and glory isn't one of them.
The cost of nursing homes is mind-boggling with the reality hits you, especially as was noted earlier that what is considered a "semi-private" room is usually a room big enough for one person (comfortably) separated by curtain. You can hear or read about the cost, but until you're writing the checks, it's just a number.
We tried to take care of my mother at home after the Medicare replacement benefits terminated and she went on private pay. It was just too much for us and the home health care options under Medicare are only useful to people who are mostly self-sufficient. I admire greatly those of you who are able to care for your family when they need it because I know how hard it is. Ultimately, the best option for my mom was the nursing home. Since she's been there, her health has improved dramatically, as has her mental and emotional states. I vowed years ago when my grandmother was put in a nursing home that I wouldn't allow it to happen to my parents, but now I see that while I had good intentions, that was more about my emotions than what was best for my mom.
We tried to take care of my mother at home after the Medicare replacement benefits terminated and she went on private pay. It was just too much for us and the home health care options under Medicare are only useful to people who are mostly self-sufficient. I admire greatly those of you who are able to care for your family when they need it because I know how hard it is. Ultimately, the best option for my mom was the nursing home. Since she's been there, her health has improved dramatically, as has her mental and emotional states. I vowed years ago when my grandmother was put in a nursing home that I wouldn't allow it to happen to my parents, but now I see that while I had good intentions, that was more about my emotions than what was best for my mom.
A while back, when I told someone that I wasn't able to care for my father in my home, I was told, that I would be surprised how many people try to do it and end up with deteriorating health and die before the person they are caring for passes. She explained that that one caregiver is trying to do what it takes a staff of several people to do. It is a huge task to take upon one's shoulders. Anyone who can do it is amazing!
Thanks for that. I was worried that when the the money runs out that Medicaid would have him transferred to another facility, maybe not as nice. Having had to move him from his house to independent living, to rehab and finally to the nursing home has been quite hard on him. The very elderly stress out with big changes and take a long time to adjust.
Unless the facility is super shady, I don't think anything will change for a patient going from private pay to medicaid. The facility will still be getting paid.
For those who have family and friends in skilled care or assisted living, visit them as often as you can! In my opinion, frequent brief visits are much better for everyone concerned than infrequent long visits (unless of course you live too far away to visit all the time).
For those who have family and friends in skilled care or assisted living, visit them as often as you can! In my opinion, frequent brief visits are much better for everyone concerned than infrequent long visits (unless of course you live too far away to visit all the time).
Huh....neither do I. Go figure.
I have heard there are more "stay at home" options for the elderly coming into the market. Looking back, it would have been worth it to drop another grand or two per month to keep him at home, because he didn't like the facility he was in. (they were nice people, it was clean, he just didn't like not being at home...)
Leave no stone unturned in trying to find the best situation for your loved one and yourself -- or whoever is the care giver. That role is too often overlooked as far as stress and effort are concerned, like BigBoxa's wife mentioned above. "Immediate sainthood" comes to mind for people like her and my uncle, who basically did the same thing for my aunt, who battled MS for 20 years. ****ing brutal and unforgiving work that is done from TRUE CHARITY. If we had more people like this, we wouldn't need Uncle Sam meddling in our lives via taxes, etc.
Leave no stone unturned in trying to find the best situation for your loved one and yourself -- or whoever is the care giver. That role is too often overlooked as far as stress and effort are concerned, like BigBoxa's wife mentioned above. "Immediate sainthood" comes to mind for people like her and my uncle, who basically did the same thing for my aunt, who battled MS for 20 years. ****ing brutal and unforgiving work that is done from TRUE CHARITY. If we had more people like this, we wouldn't need Uncle Sam meddling in our lives via taxes, etc.
Agree 100%. Resources are tight and if they think you are gong to drop in any time, your loved one will "win the tie" for attention with some patient who simply gets a birthday and Christmas visit. Not a happy thought, but it has been my experience.
Also, chat up the general manager of the facility before committing. I think a good GM for a facility is worth $1,000,000. They will be doing much of the review and hiring for staff, so a decent person will produce, on average, better results for your loved one.
hoosierdoc
Freed prisoner
It looks like indiana's general fund is about $15 billion for FY17. Indiana Medicaid spending is $10.5 billion in 2016. Wow. Feds help with some of that, but WOW. About a $30B total operating budget including federal funds.
http://in.gov/sba/files/AS_2017_Budget_Summaries_Func_Sum_3.pdf
Total Medicaid Spending | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation
http://in.gov/sba/files/AS_2017_Budget_Summaries_Func_Sum_3.pdf
Total Medicaid Spending | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation
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