NY Police accidentally shoot shop worker to death

[Kirk Freeman]

Oh, almost forgot. NYPD will shortly be blaming the victim for running out of the store.

"Our brave officer made the best decision he could given the facts at the time. The deceased had a responsibility not to get himself shot by one of us."

 

[GBuck]

Yikes! That's not accidental.

With the video we are likely arguing Reckless Homicide vs. Knowingly or Intentional.

He shot him from retention. He meant to do it.

Look at him dance around. He is amped up and does not know what to do, so he gets the gun out. People that act like Officer Happydance do not shoot because there is a threat, they shoot to make themselves feel better.

We shall see if this turns into the BART case or if NYPD's political influence prevents a prosecution. Wait and see.

I think it depends on what the definition of "is", is.

Oh, almost forgot. NYPD will shortly be blaming the victim for running out of the store.

"Our brave officer made the best decision he could given the facts at the time. The deceased had a responsibility not to get himself shot by one of us."

I agree that he should be in trouble. I agree that he is in the wrong. I do not agree that he purposefully shot an unarmed civilian. I think that he got all geeked out and made a bad decision out of panic. That's why I'm saying it was accidental, not purposeful.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Would it be fair to say that hizzoner the mayor bears some culpability for being a skinflint who won't pay for adequate training such as to work this type of thing out in canned exercises rather than drilling real holes in real people?

 

[cobber]

Would it be fair to say that hizzoner the mayor bears some culpability for being a skinflint who won't pay for adequate training such as to work this type of thing out in canned exercises rather than drilling real holes in real people?

No, that's too harsh. He basically just doesn't give a rat's *** about the lives of the citizens of NYC, except for his own coterie perhaps.

 

[Bushido Devil Dog]

After watching the video, I'm seeing it the same way as Shortyforty, Singlestacksig, Rocket, and Kirk. Having read the story before seeing the video, I expected to see the victim come flying out and basically piling on top of the cop like a defensive lineman sacking the quarterback. Instead I saw the cop track the victim at high ready, and apparently panic-blast a round into an innocent man... Oops...

 

[Kutnupe14]

After watching the vid, tough call for the officer. Is there anyone here that thinks they would have performed much better, given the circumstances? The officer was at fault, and this is tragic, but not negligence. The officer was placed in a bad situation, and made the wrong decision.

 

[g00n24]

So if him running into the LEO caused him to "accidentally" pull the trigger does that mean NY cops will have to have 35lb triggers in their firearms now? I mean isn't the "New York trigger" supposed to stop this from happening?

 

[chachi73]

Was the vic brandishing a piece? Can't see the vid on my phone. No piece = big lawsuit and bad shoot.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Was the vic brandishing a piece? Can't see the vid on my phone. No piece = big lawsuit and bad shoot.

...and what if the officer was issuing verbal commands? Verbal commands issued to a person running from a dark store that was known to contain armed robbers?
And what if there weren't any commands? How are you going to respond, sitting at an active armed robbery, no back-up, and a guy starts running towards your direction from inside the store?
I understand the "Monday Morning Quarterbacking," and obviously it was a "bad" shoot, but there's nothing sinister about this. They city will probably pay up, and I don't necessarily disagree with that, but for this situation to come out the "right" way, it would have required an officer the type of split-second decision skills that no one rarely possesses.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I do not agree that he purposefully shot an unarmed civilian.

Knowingly is not purposefully.

Recklessly is not purposefully.

We shall see if there is a criminal prosecution as in BART.

Instead I saw the cop track the victim at high ready, and apparently panic-blast a round into an innocent man

He was a panicked little puppy that's for certain.

However, given the lack of training that NYPD does it really does not surprise me to see this puppy behavior. You could do a dance video to his hopping about.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Part of me feels bad for the officer. No one taught him what to do so he's left to dance around with his gun out. A receipe for disaster.

What has Bloomberg said about this?

 

[IndyDave1776]

Knowingly is not purposefully.

Recklessly is not purposefully.

We shall see if there is a criminal prosecution as in BART.



He was a panicked little puppy that's for certain.

However, given the lack of training that NYPD does it really does not surprise me to see this puppy behavior. You could do a dance video to his hopping about.

right back to what you said previously about your nephew having received better training than the NYPD. Maybe Bloomberg should invest some of the money he is using to chase down 20oz. sodas on teaching his cops how (and whom) to shoot. I will return to comments phylodog has made in the past that there is a good reason his department isn't in the news for this kind of nonsense. My guess is that if it can be done in one place, it can be done in another.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

The problem is in New York City is that the brass do not want to train their officers as such training could produce a gun culture in the department. Guns are so hated in New York City that they would rather keep the police ignorant than train them.

 

[IndyDave1776]

The problem is in New York City is that the brass do not want to train their officers as such training could produce a gun culture in the department. Guns are so hated in New York City that they would rather keep the police ignorant than train them.

I never thought about that, but it makes sense. Is this cumulative observation or have they been overt with it?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

If you talk to the gun school teachers who have been NYPD they will confirm it. Circillo and Rogers have terrifying stories.

I have had the same interactions with Boston cops. Absolutely clueless and it is by design.

 

[IndyDave1776]

If you talk to the gun school teachers who have been NYPD they will confirm it. Circillo and Rogers have terrifying stories.

I have had the same interactions with Boston cops. Absolutely clueless and it is by design.

Thanks! You just opened an interesting door for me.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Think of it as akin to the hostility that armourers receive in the Australian or UK service. If you teach people to work on guns in the military then when they get out they will want guns and see nothing wrong with them.

If NYPD teaches its officers about guns and tactics (fighting with guns) then it normalizes them. Guns lose their mystical status that they have on the East Coast.

The battle over guns is a cultural war. In the East the fight is harder as the culture is against guns. This works against the government too in that they cannot staff their police agencies with people that know anything about fighting or guns.

http://www.pagunblog.com/2012/08/24/some-questions-for-mike-bloomberg/

 

[Kirk Freeman]

90% of drunken, toothless, barefoot hillbillies in Idaho pass LAPD shooting test:

http://www.pagunblog.com/2012/09/08/lapd-police-qualifier-test-how-gun-nuts-did/

We need an INGO comparison.