Obsolete handguns?

[88E30M50]

The O word has been tossed about a lot lately due to the availability of larger capacity micro guns. Tim, over on the Military Arms Channel has been suggesting that the Glock 19 is now obsolete due to the availability of the 17 round Sig P365 Macro. What does INGO say on that matter?

From my perspective, if a handgun has quality ammo available, is reliable and can be mastered with practice, then it is a viable weapon for carry if it suits the need. By suit the need, I mean that a .22lr Derringer has its use, but it’s not suited for use as a primary duty weapon. Similarly, a Ruger Redhawk in .44 Mag is a great weapon in the back country but it would be tough to conceal in a gun unfriendly environment.

To that end, there are very few obsolete guns out there today. Merriam-Webster defines obsolete as having no use or not current. Any gun still manufactured does not meet the ‘Not current’ test. Any handgun that has ammo available, and is reliable in function, does not meet the ‘no use’ qualifier.

But, the new wonder micros sure do push some older guns out of the limelight though. 17+1 in a smaller, thinner, lighter package does make a Glock 19 less appealing if you can shoot it just as well.

 

[armalitesheepdog]

If it works. And you can get ammo for it.
Then its not obsolete. Even as a range toy. How many single action army .45s are sold to this day.

 

[mcapo]

If the P365 has made the G19 obsolete, it would seem logical that my beloved SW Model 60 is also no longer a viable EDC? I think not.

No question that in the world of new production firearms, certain platforms will become obsolete i.e. the out of production Sig P224.

Obsolete from a manufacturing perspective does not mean the firearm still doesn't have viability within its market segment on the existing/used market, as 88 points out.

What MAC/Tim may be alluding to is that the tried and true approach of Glock may have to change to meet consumer demands in the future? I am not saying that Glocks will stop selling because Sig brought out the 5,121st variation of the P365 but is the basic Glock formula something that still maintains consumer market share ten years from now?

Again, Glock ain't going anywhere for a long long long time but is it time for Perfection to be superseded by Innovation?

 

[ACC]

Kel Tec PF9 is obsolete, but it was obsolete the day it came out. Worst trigger ever

 

[pmbiker]

I'm asking because I don't know.

Does Military Arms Channel accept any industry advertising $$?

Usually if someone is telling me what I have is no good and I need something new.....they have a motivation.

 

[Gabriel]

Again, Glock ain't going anywhere for a long long long time but is it time for Perfection to be superseded by Innovation?

Glock is the standard that pretty much all other (plastic) handguns are compared to for a reason. Because of that, they're in the unfortunate position that if they do not innovate, people complain that Glock hasn't kept up with the times. If they do modernize and innovate, people complain that Glock perfection wasn't actually perfection if they change their design at all.

 

[VERT]

Good! Now I can put away the 1911 and carry my Glock. Maybe buy a P365 once the next innovation hits the market.

Maybe Glock needs to reinvent and reinvigorate to stay relevant? But I wouldn’t completely give up on producing cheap and reliable handguns for duty use just yet.

 

[Tactically Fat]

Glock is the standard that pretty much all other (plastic) handguns are compared to for a reason.

Unfortunately, that reason was basically cost. Still is a price point issue when you're talking about issuing (potentially) thousands of pistols.

Glock was indeed innovative back then - and then they basically stopped innovating. They fired the guy who wanted to keep innovating and changing things (Whilhelm Bubits). (maybe he left of his own accord, I don't know if he was fired)

But 30 out of the last 40 years, Glock was basically first and they were cheapest. This lead to an overwhelming market share that remains to this day.

If the plastic fantastic revolution started 10 years ago and there were suddenly all the options available we enjoy now, I don't think Glock would have the market share that they do. But they'd probably still have 50% of it.

 

[flatlander]

His opinion is worth what I paid for it.
I am actually transitioning back to my 1911 Ronin .45 from my RMR equipped Glock 19. The 365's don't fit my hand the way I like. I could make do but why should I ? It's just a preference thing. I carry what fits my hands and my needs best.

Working where I do gives me the opportunity to put a lot of guns in my hands as well as talk to a lot of people about why they prefer this over that. If gun "A" works best for you then congrats but I won't push gun "B" just because some Youtuber thinks it's the next magic wand of a weapon.

 

[Leadeye]

Bah. No such thing as an obsolete gun.

 

[xwing]

That's silly. If you can still acquire ammo for the firearm and it is up to common safety standards (e.g. drop safe) then it is not obsolete.

 

[Ruger_Ronin]

The O word has been tossed about a lot lately due to the availability of larger capacity micro guns. Tim, over on the Military Arms Channel has been suggesting that the Glock 19 is now obsolete due to the availability of the 17 round Sig P365 Macro. What does INGO say on that matter?

From my perspective, if a handgun has quality ammo available, is reliable and can be mastered with practice, then it is a viable weapon for carry if it suits the need. By suit the need, I mean that a .22lr Derringer has its use, but it’s not suited for use as a primary duty weapon. Similarly, a Ruger Redhawk in .44 Mag is a great weapon in the back country but it would be tough to conceal in a gun unfriendly environment.

To that end, there are very few obsolete guns out there today. Merriam-Webster defines obsolete as having no use or not current. Any gun still manufactured does not meet the ‘Not current’ test. Any handgun that has ammo available, and is reliable in function, does not meet the ‘no use’ qualifier.

But, the new wonder micros sure do push some older guns out of the limelight though. 17+1 in a smaller, thinner, lighter package does make a Glock 19 less appealing if you can shoot it just as well.

I had this line of thought when the G22 became old hat. Recently converted it to 9mm to avoid having to buy all the support items (holsters, accessories, etc.). There was a period immediately after everyone dumped them I had an abundance of cheap mags, parts, and such. Now with the rising cost of .40, it seemed economical to make the change to 9, yet keeping a familiar platform from the roster.

I don't have the heart to switch off as this hg and I have been together a long time, and we mesh well. More testing is needed...

 

[Ruger_Ronin]

Good! Now I can put away the 1911 and carry my Glock. Maybe buy a P365 once the next innovation hits the market.

Maybe Glock needs to reinvent and reinvigorate to stay relevant? But I wouldn’t completely give up on producing cheap and reliable handguns for duty use just yet.

Blasphemous hate speeech

 

[bobzilla]

I bet my obsolete carry gun will still drop the bad guy with 230gr of expanding +P hollow points.

 

[VERT]

Blasphemous hate speeech

I know right!

 

[Ingomike]

Some of you have a funny definition of obsolete. Does not mean you cannot own, shoot, carry, etc. it means “no longer produced or used; out of date” . If competitors can put out a near G43 size with G19 capacity or greater, most would say the G19 is obsolete for concealed carry as its original mission was to be smaller than the G17, but others have out done them with smaller. And there are so many options today competing…

 

[COOPADUP]

There's really no such thing unless there isn't any available ammo available. IMHO
Even then, they become collectable items.

 

[mcapo]

Some of you have a funny definition of obsolete. Does not mean you cannot own, shoot, carry, etc. it means “no longer produced or used; out of date” . If competitors can put out a near G43 size with G19 capacity or greater, most would say the G19 is obsolete for concealed carry as its original mission was to be smaller than the G17, but others have out done them with smaller. And there are so many options today competing…

I think the OP and MAC meant obsolete from a manufacturing standpoint. I assumed that anyway....

You are right about options. It really is amazing how many reliable, accurate and affordable firearms exist in the EDC and "duty" sectors.

 

[Noble Sniper]

Obsolete….. no way!!!!

 

[Ingomike]

How many of you would buy a new G19 today?