OEM vs Aftermarket Trigger

[Amishman44]

Had a discussion, this past weekend, regarding using a full 'OEM' sidearm for EDC...or if it was 'okay' to utilize aftermarket parts, including a flat-faced trigger?
I've tried 'Ghost' 3.5# connector in a Glock pistol and didn't like that it didn't have a solid or 'felt' break point...I just wasn't comfortable not feeling it 'break' before it fired!
One other aspect of the conversation centered around the idea that an aftermarket or 'modified' pistol could or would get one in more trouble, legally (with an over-zealous DA) should one have to use it in self-defense encounter?
Question: Does anyone incorporate an aftermarket trigger in a pistol, including a flat-faced trigger, or a lighter connector (specifically in a Glock)...in their EDC?
Just being curious...what say y'all ? ? ?

 

[Ruger_Ronin]

I use a Double Diamond 3.5 connector in one of my Glocks (EDC rotation), as well as a few other minor enhancements. Night sights, mag release paddle, & grip plug.

I have also heard the "modified HG will be a DA attack" scenario, but my counter argument is that; won't a modified/enhanced firearm tailored to my needs increase my effectiveness, therefor decreasing the possibility of unwanted outcomes? I don't buy into the OEM only crowd. Ultimately this is my answer: if a change to the platform makes me more efficient at defending myself then that's the deal. In the end, it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

 

[JCSR]

In a self defense situation I can't imagine "feeling the break" being of any concern. I'll be slapping that trigger like my life depends on it ...... because it does. I just keep EDC OEM and play with my range/comp guns. A light crisp trigger with a short reset is sweet for playing though.

 

[snapping turtle]

The old Glock debate. If it is the greatest pistol ever why do you need a aftermarket trigger.

The only Glock I have left is a 17L with a barsto barrel and a vickers trigger.it also has the original parts which came with it. I find the vickers flat trigger to feel lighter than the trigger gauge says. Gauge does have it at 4.8 and the factory at 5.2 . Both have a stop before the break but the vickers feels lighter than 4.6. Over travel on the vickers has been adjusted. the stock trigger has the sponge bob feel but has had some work done so It pulls lighter than most Glocks on the gauge it was also in a 17L kinda a target Glock so to speak.

I shoot the vickers flat a little better. Less pull to the right. Group size is about the same but with the original l do shoot
To the right.


Would I carry a modified pistol yes. Would I carry one with a punisher symbol? No but I don’t think most peoples Would know what a flat verse original trigger looked like in court.

 

[bwframe]

I run Ghost EVO Elite connectors. It drops the poundage down to 4-4 1/2 and has a stop that you tune by filing down. Combined with a bit of a polish job, it leaves the gun a bit better than stock, but not so "customized" that you cannot shoot another bone stock gun.

 

[ECS686]

I use a Double Diamond 3.5 connector in one of my Glocks (EDC rotation), as well as a few other minor enhancements. Night sights, mag release paddle, & grip plug.

I have also heard the "modified HG will be a DA attack" scenario, but my counter argument is that; won't a modified/enhanced firearm tailored to my needs increase my effectiveness, therefor decreasing the possibility of unwanted outcomes? I don't buy into the OEM only crowd. Ultimately this is my answer: if a change to the platform makes me more efficient at defending myself then that's the deal. In the end, it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

Ruger respectfully. When anyone states “better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6” they most likely have never been the subject of a possible criminal case on a use of force and testified in a Federal inquiry or Grand Jury To try to stay out of being charged. Trust me it’s not pleasant. Especially when DOJ OIG is involved.

That said the whole regurgitation that modified guns will make or break a case is BS.

That said
For an EDC I’d advise against it and to stick with OEM parts as mentioned not for any legal issue. But because of dependability. And here’s my observation why.

With about 3 decades of competition and working agency ranges and professional courses. Anytime a Glock (or Stryker anything and 1911 and about any other make) choke it’s almost always an aftermarket trigger, guide rods or YouTube trigger job. (I’m not referring to OEM connectors as well they are OEM)

When Agency guns fail it’s usually non individual issue and designated training guns that are wheeled out just for a qualification. The type that because they are only training guns get neglected and a ton of rounds through them.

If one can’t pull a trigger back straight enough in a Glock an aftermarket trigger isn’t going to help.

If your talking competition guns then have at it!

 

[Ruger_Ronin]

Ruger respectfully. When anyone states “better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6” they most likely have never been the subject of a possible criminal case on a use of force and testified in a Federal inquiry or Grand Jury To try to stay out of being charged. Trust me it’s not pleasant.

As opposed to the alternative unpleasantness?

That said
For an EDC I’d advise against it and to stick with OEM parts as mentioned not for any legal issue. But because of dependability. And here’s my observation why.

I am not negating your experience. However, I refuse to believe that there is no better part than OEM. Innovation leads to growth (invention). I've tried many "upgrades" to find they were not as good as made out to be, or that simply weren't for my liking. Some have greatly improved my shooting. If OEM anything was the gold standard, then why does just about everything have an aftermarket alternative?

In contrast, making any change in a critical function of a firearm for aesthetics isn't high on my list either. I personally don't like flat triggers. The curve helps me stay constant in finger placement. But, to each his own.

 

[ECS686]

As opposed to the alternative unpleasantness?



I am not negating your experience. However, I refuse to believe that there is no better part than OEM. Innovation leads to growth (invention). I've tried many "upgrades" to find they were not as good as made out to be, or that simply weren't for my liking. Some have greatly improved my shooting. If OEM anything was the gold standard, then why does just about everything have an aftermarket alternative?

In contrast, making any change in a critical function of a firearm for aesthetics isn't high on my list either. I personally don't like flat triggers. The curve helps me stay constant in finger placement. But, to each his own.

With aftermarket It’s marketing plain and simple. Get folks to believe they need it for their firearms awesomeness and Bam sales. I get the stuff for competition performance. However if you look at firearms and accessories commercials in outdoor channel. Latest and grates right now just to live through the night.

Lately a popular take in the competition vs training world is for EDC is the thoughts like a USPSA match one needs to run .20 splits in a self defense scenario. So all sorts of triggers and etc are sought out for the fraction of a second.

Problem is Mortal’s can’t assess a real situation that fast and react PROPERLY AND make hits consistently (sort of a package deal). IE no 5 min walk through and every target takes 2 Rounds and penalty for mag dumping. Even LAPD SWAT one of the best in the nation has slow to USPSA standards a .50 standard for split times with Factory OEM gear.

As far as innovation. Recently you are seeing more manufacturers putting things like Flat Faced triggers(I get it if some don’t like them) but some like the 1911 ish feel. Then the MRDS ready is more standard as OEM as well so there is that direction the industry is trending towards.

And I’ll just reiterate I have seen ten fold the issues of firearms going down with non OEM parts than OEM duty firearms. In over 33 years I’ve seen a lot of department OEM guns in use with training and matches. The OEM guns just do not choke like aftermarket parts and YouTube armorers guns do!

But everyone is free to do them

 

[Ruger_Ronin]

With aftermarket It’s marketing plain and simple. Get folks to believe they need it for their firearms awesomeness and Bam sales. I get the stuff for competition performance. However if you look at firearms and accessories commercials in outdoor channel. Latest and grates right now just to live through the night.

Lately a popular take in the competition vs training world is for EDC is the thoughts like a USPSA match one needs to run .20 splits in a self defense scenario. So all sorts of triggers and etc are sought out for the fraction of a second.

Problem is Mortal’s can’t assess a real situation that fast and react PROPERLY AND make hits consistently (sort of a package deal). IE no 5 min walk through and every target takes 2 Rounds and penalty for mag dumping. Even LAPD SWAT one of the best in the nation has slow to USPSA standards a .50 standard for split times with Factory OEM gear.

As far as innovation. Recently you are seeing more manufacturers putting things like Flat Faced triggers(I get it if some don’t like them) but some like the 1911 ish feel. Then the MRDS ready is more standard as OEM as well so there is that direction the industry is trending towards.

Well stated. I think in the end, it's important for the user to determine the risk/reward and what works best for them. There is a happy medium between competition and defensive shooting. It's up to us to find our place in that zone.

 

[churchmouse]

I have seldom left a gun ORM as there is always something to be improved upon.
Accuracy and if II are the usual areas to be dealt with. It was stated that marketing is a serious pressure on the gun owner to put this that and the other in the gun to make you a better shot. That is true to a point. Knowing what actually does improve your pistol is also key.
Any brand including a Glock can be made better over mass production with the right parts/fitment/ skills and tooling. Skills is a key to making the right parts give you the end results you desire.
Yes I am a 1911 guy dyed in the wool.
That platform responds so readily to the proper mods. Just like a Glock.

 

[ivers4272]

I have been told by a firearms instructor to keep the trigger stock out at least a trigger around 5lbs. In stressful situations, you don't want to shoot accidentally. I'm not talking about trigger discipline. I'm talking about when you have your finger on the trigger and ready to shoot.

 

[92FSTech]

I have a Ghost Rocket connector in my only Glock. It doesn't change the pull weight, but does smooth out the pull and eliminate overtravel. It makes the gun a hair easier to be accurate with on slow, deliberate shots, but probably wouldn't even be noticed in a defensive shooting. It's been in there for 10 years and thousands of rounds with no issues, so I'd say it's not a reliability concern. IMO that particular mod is not any different than doing a light polish job on a revolver to get the burrs and imperfections out of the action parts.

All of my DA/SA Sigs have a factory short reset kit installed. I'm not sure if this counts as aftermarket, since the parts were made by Sig, but none of my guns came from the factory that way...I had to add it. The SRT kit doesn't change the pull weight at all, but the way I shoot it does facilitate cleaner follow-up shots, and IMO serves an important function in a defensive gun by pretty much eliminating the chance of short-stroking the trigger reset under pressure (something I have actually done on guns not so-equipped).

As to legal liability, I don't know. I'm not a lawyer. But if I'm ever in the nightmare position of having to defend my intentional use of deadly force, I think justifying the use of force itself is going to be of far greater importance than the minute details of the tool employed. Deadly force is deadly force, whether you shoot somebody in the face, hit them with a car, or beat them over the head with a brick. You have to be able to articulate why you believed that you were in imminent jeapardy of death or serious bodily injury, and the jury has to believe that given these circumstances, your use of force was reasonable. If your use of force was truly reasonable, then I doubt what trigger system you had in your gun would even factor into the case. However, if it some should, I'm confident I could articulate why I made the modifications to mine that I did.

Now if you're talking about pointing a gun at somebody and a small gust of wind hits your 2.7oz competition trigger, or it experiences a mechanical failure, causing the gun to discharge into them when you didn't intend for it to, then we are talking about a different issue altogether, and yes there's huge liability in that.

 

[DadSmith]

The only triggers I have left factory are the Canik, Shield, and 1911 triggers. The rest got different triggers or had a gunsmith do a trigger job on it.

 

[NHT3]

Yes and the reason being is that I know what I'm doing improves my performance. I've tried flat faced triggers and found that I prefer the stock trigger, YMMV. I know I prefer the Ghost EVO connectors because tried the other connectors. I'm confident my pistol is still reliable and I know the mods I end up with improve my performance because I train. It appears that more than a few people mod for cosmetic reasons only and that same group seldom if ever trains. It's America and we still have freedom to do what we want (for the time being). Don't assume any mod will be reliable or improve performance without testing, your life may depend on your decision.

I have been told by a firearms instructor to keep the trigger stock out at least a trigger around 5lbs. In stressful situations, you don't want to shoot accidentally. I'm not talking about trigger discipline. I'm talking about when you have your finger on the trigger and ready to shoot.

Trigger finger discipline is what you are talking about. Your finger should not be on the trigger until you have made the decision to fire. Discharges are seldom accidental, they are negligent or intentional.

 

[88E30M50]

Very few guns have remained as delivered in my EDC lineup. I don’t go overboard on go fast bits but will tune them to my needs. For instance, I’ll typically add factory parts to a Sig P22X to shorten reset and an aftermarket trigger to improve the feel. The Legions remain stock and everything else is brought up to Legion standards.

I’m not too worried about legal ramifications since nothing I’ve done changes the gun from a safe configuration for EDC guns. Triggers remain at about 4#. When I ran Glocks, I used the + connectors to improve the trigger feel. It delivered a nice wall at the expense of a slightly heavier pull.

 

[gregkl]

Being one to not be able to leave things alone, whether a car, gun or kayak, I have to find something to do to make them "mine."

But...OEM is usually better. They spend more on research, development, engineering, tooling and maintaining close tolerances. However, a factory item is at times a compromise to be able to be all things to all people. Can you make a car faster? Sure. But there will be a cost to doing so, usually a loss of fuel efficiency in this case.

Can you make a pistol not dip as much on the slide return by adjusting the recoil spring? Sure. But it may not spit out factory rounds and light reloads with the same aplomb. And a different spring may contribute to increased wear on other parts of the firearm. The factory will run everything.

There are aftermarket parts that are better than factory, but in the aftermarket industry at large, it is a small percentage. Choose wisely.

Then there is the cost to "fine tune" a firearm. I have heard people say "why doesn't Glock polish the action so it's smoother"? Because it would increase the retail price and probably put them in an noncompetitive position. They are mass production firearms, not bespoke pieces.

I have a few firearms that are as they came from the factory. But not many.

 

[Robert Richardson]

I think some people over think too many things. Most OEM parts are the best cost effective pieces, not necessarily the best.

 

[Itchytriggerfinger]

I'm sorry but anyone that thinks they're going to notice the difference between a 2lb trigger and a 5lb trigger, a crisp break, or a short reset when you're in a self defense situation is silly.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Anything I carry is either stock or in a stock configuration. Any "custom work" is done by the OEM, specifically Sig custom shop. I don't use aftermarket magazines for carry, either, especially the higher than OEM capacity mags. The number of reported issues with stock guns vs the number of reported issues with modified guns should be enough of an explanation why.

I've detailed out before the legal ramifications. I won't bother again. It's not an issue until it's an issue, and then it'll be an expensive issue. Funny how the 'not the odds, its the stakes crowd' doesn't apply it to legal battles as well.

If you can't shoot a 5.5 lb trigger it's you, not the gun. Get better.

 

[ECS686]

I'm sorry but anyone that thinks they're going to notice the difference between a 2lb trigger and a 5lb trigger, a crisp break, or a short reset when you're in a self defense situation is silly.

True, Heavy triggers can also be bad in the they don’t keep adrenaline from still making it go bang.
Sort of a related story but folks will find interesting. I was in Montana in 1992. At that time te Montana Highway Patrol carried S&W 5903 (Alloy frame version of the 5906 with squared trigger guard early 3rd gen S&W with a 15 lb DA first trigger pull)

Trooper pulled over a speeder in the Missoula area. Unbeknownst to the Trooper driver was suspected of murder in Nevada. He came out with a Thomson Center contender handgun in 30-30 The one round struck the lady trooper in the shoulder through the windshield. She was still seated and had drew her 5903. (Note this was before trigger indexing was really beat as DA firearms were taught to start pulling the trigger on the draw anyone carry agency guns back then can remember)

Also a problem for her was this was before using mail he steering wheel to guide the gun and not sweep body parts and shooting through windshields was really taught)

The muzzle of the 5903 was over her thigh when the peeps 39-30 round struck. She tensed up (30-30 damn right she did) and the result she shot herself in the leg. So this lady was **** twice right off the get go. She managed to roll out suspect dropped the single shot and pulled a revolver advancing.

She fired emptying her mag, as she got o the back of the car she reloaded and put three more rounds of the new mag right between his running lights (he was hit 6 times total) and she survived.

So while super heavy triggers make admins feel better in stress hey won’t stop stuff. They are great for covering up sloppy administrative gun handling which is probably why there was a spike in ADs on the flat range. Then it was learned index, follow the steering wheel if seated yada yada.

Last Highway Patrol shooting was in 1992

Only six officers shot in past 20 years

missoulian.com