Only Obama Could Go to Cuba

[indiucky]

It's debatable as to who was the worse for the Cuban people.

My wife's Godmother was Cuban, as are many of her family friends...(For whatever reason in LA in the 1960's the Cubanos and the Argentine's tended to hang out together...I think it had to do with similar BBQ and musical tastes) so what I am saying is from the perspective of a Cuban refugee...

Carmita's family owned a printing press...They were very successful in this endeavor...When Castro took power he took over their business and left them with nothing...He wanted no printing press out there that he didn't own....Her parents saw the writing on the wall and shipped Carmita and her brother to Miami on one of the last boats out...A couple of years later her parents managed to escape...A good friend of mine dated a Cuban guy in the early 90's....He had to leave because his dad gave him a motorcycle...One is not allowed to make over $20 per month and the secret police came after him because they figured if he could own a motorcycle he had to be getting money illicitly....There were many folks that fought in the revolution against the previous dictator who were murdered by Castro after the revolution...Military men mostly whom Castro saw as a threat...Many Cubans believe Castro sent Che on these "Let's spread communism around the world" missions hoping that Che would be killed...He eventually was.....


Carmita never learned English...In her mind she was Cuban in exile...She died about 10 years ago....She was not a woman that one would want to wear a Che shirt in front of....My brother in law is pretty liberal...One time (as a joke to me) he sent me a pic of him reading Che's "official" biography....Carmita mentioned she did not have any recent pics of him and his family and I "innocently" sent that pic of him (along with some others) to Carmita...

A week later my Bro in law called...."Dude! Did you send that picture of me reading Che to Carmita?" I said, "Yeah...Why what happened?"...He laughed and said, "Well...I got a heck of a history lesson...I have known Carmita my whole life and I thought she was going to come through the phone..."....I said "Well you obviously have an interest in Che and I thought you might enjoy talking to someone who actually saw him when he was alive to maybe fill in the blanks in the book you were reading...."

He said, to his credit..."Touche' Bro..."

I am fascinated by this time in history and like you have studied it some...As you said, it's not so cut and dried but from the folks I have known and spoken too Castro was the bigger turd of the two......IMHO.....

 

[mtinner]

I think they have bananas, I like bananas so things might work out for me.

 

[indiucky]

Can someone (anyone) please give me two or three solid reasons how this is going to benefit the United States as a country ?

One..

Two....

Three...

Or maybe these three...

There is just something magical that happens when DNA from around the world swirls together a couple of hundred years on an Island.....

 

[jamil]

How well versed are you, concerning the history of Cuba? When you say a "thug comes to power by looting the people," you could be talking about Batista, OR Castro. Essentially, Cuba traded one bad dictator for another. The difference is, that because Castro was a Communist, and Batista a "friendly" to the US dictator, Castro was the bad guy. It's debatable as to who was the worse for the Cuban people.

It's not hard to figure out who was the worst for Cubans. What were the living conditions before Castro? What are the living conditions after. Even under a brutal dictator, having the ability or not to own things does affect living conditions.

 

[Kutnupe14]

It's not hard to figure out who was the worst for Cubans. What were the living conditions before Castro? What are the living conditions after. Even under a brutal dictator, having the ability or not to own things does affect living conditions.

One could counter that with how was the average Cuban's health and literacy, before and after?

 

[Streck-Fu]

I'm unsure if history has made known who idea it was to place the missiles in Cuba. Castro had incentive, obviously the Sovietss had incentive. It's true if the Cubans had opposed their placement, the Soviets had a sizeable carrot to dangle, Howe, after the Bay of Pigs, Cuba very well may have been all for it.

Castro very much supported it. The weapons provided were not just nuclear and included conventional arms like antiaircraft armament. Castro wanted them as a deterrent and defense against another attempted overthrow which he viewed as inevitable. He was very concerned that the US would fully invade after the failure of the bay of Pigs.
Castro advocated against the removal of the nuclear missiles as he thought they may protect him.

 

[Streck-Fu]

Cuba has been free to trade with the whole world with the only exception being the US. The Cuban government has implemented very cumbersome approvals necessary to import goods into Cuba. That is why there are next to no newer cars on the island. Very few companies are willing to go through the process to apply for such import permissions. Their lack of goods has nothing to do with the US embargo.

If this can lead to a peaceful way to liberate a little over 11 million people out from under a violent and repressive Communist regime - then why not?

Those 11 million people deserve to be free just as you and I are.

Toppling regimes doesn't always have to mean utilizing weapons and ordinance.

And perhaps...just perhaps enough American dollars and influence into that country 90 miles off the coast of Florida can make it happen in the next handful of years. A free Cuba is better for all of us, and everyone in the surrounding nations.

HOWEVER: I'm not at all sure that the President's visit, done in the matter it has been done in, is at all the right way to go about it. ESPECIALLY seemingly posing for photos in front of the huge Che monument (Not sure if just camera angles may have framed that photo or not).

If Freedom is good and righteous for us; Freedom is good and righteous for Cubans.

 

[Gluemanz28]

I just heard the VP Joe Biden told Obama to tell Cuba he did a good job on the OJ movie during his visit to meet with Castro.

 

[jamil]

One could counter that with how was the average Cuban's health and literacy, before and after?

Depends on which ideologue you get your news from. I think I'd tend to weight the anecdotal information from the people who lived there and fled from there a little higher.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Depends on which ideologue you get your news from. I think I'd tend to weight the anecdotal information from the people who lived there and fled from there a little higher.

Were they illiterate and in poor health? And I think it would be quite difficult to find very many Cubans alive who can compare and contrast the Batista and Castro regimes (keeping mind Batista ran Cuba since the 30s).

 

[indiucky]

Depends on which ideologue you get your news from. I think I'd tend to weight the anecdotal information from the people who lived there and fled from there a little higher.

With my wife translating for me I have gotten to speak to roughly five folks who were there before and after....(in light of Kut's comment above these are all older folks and the conversations took place in the mid 90's when I got married)They all lean heavily towards "before".....

I asked Alejandro (his mother fled and he was born here) once what will happen when Castro dies...He said there will be a week of payback...He said every Cuban knows who the rats are and when the rats (snitches) no longer have their protection it's going to be pretty brutal...There is a lot of bad blood down there...

 

[jamil]

With my wife translating for me I have gotten to speak to roughly five folks who were there before and after....(in light of Kut's comment above these are all older folks and the conversations took place in the mid 90's when I got married)They all lean heavily towards "before".....

I asked Alejandro (his mother fled and he was born here) once what will happen when Castro dies...He said there will be a week of payback...He said every Cuban knows who the rats are and when the rats (snitches) no longer have their protection it's going to be pretty brutal...There is a lot of bad blood down there...

That's why I tend to believe what people say about it who were/are actually experienced rather than people who have an ideological point to further.

 

[indiucky]

That's why I tend to believe what people say about it who were/are actually experienced rather than people who have an ideological point to further.

I knew when I was talking with them that they (obviously) had a beef with Castro but they seem sincere in what they said...A couple of them supported the "revolution" and truly felt betrayed when the real Castro revealed himself....Like I said earlier, my wife's Godmother always considered herself a Cuban Exile....She never bothered to learn English because in her mind once the regime fell she would be going back home...

She was a real classy lady and I will always appreciate the insight she gave me into that time in history....

 

[Kutnupe14]

That's why I tend to believe what people say about it who were/are actually experienced rather than people who have an ideological point to further.

I don't have an ideological point. My opinion is based largely on the interactions I've had with Cubans. Hell, I almost married a Cuban and helped organize one of the first Latina sororities at UF (PR, DR, Cub). My dang roommate was Cuban, from Hialeah. A large number who have an irrational hatred of any thing Castro related. I and some of my Cuban friends got into a heated argument about "Elian." They thought he should stay here, and I thought he should go back to his father. Their arguments were solely based on Castro this or Castro that. It's been my experience that they are so entrenched in the past, that they are completely unwilling to give an honest look at the regime today, at least so far as it is compared to the previous oppressive, Batista regime. In the 60s I doubt you'd find a Cuban willing to take the risk of going back to Cuba, but now it happens regularly. So what's changed?

 

[Streck-Fu]

They thought he should stay here, and I thought he should go back to his father.

His mother drowned transporting him away from his father and the regime. It took a very insistent effort by the Cuban government and sympathetic Janet Reno to send in armed agents to retrieve him.

It's been my experience that they are so entrenched in the past, that they are completely unwilling to give an honest look at the regime today, at least so far as it is compared to the previous oppressive, Batista regime.

If the people are dirt freaking poor right now, have a hard time getting food, and their lives are sh*t, they should just ask if things were better before or now before deciding if getting the f**k out of there is a worthwhile risk?

I do not find your idea of 'giving the regime today an honest look' to be rational in the least. The numbers of former Cubans returning are very small and usually have money already to start business and buy property (something only permitted since 2011). See, the change must come from the regime to make Cuba successful.

 

[indiucky]

Hell, I almost married a Cuban and helped organize one of the first Latina sororities at UF (PR, DR, Cub).

From our talks I figured you may have had a Latina in your past.....So let me ask you this...I ask the wife and she tells me it's all in my head but did you ever notice that when Latina women are speaking to each other, whether in person or on the phone, they talk real LOUD!!!!!!!!!

I mean LOUD!!!!!

Tell me I am not imagining this....

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

From our talks I figured you may have had a Latina in your past.....So let me ask you this...I ask the wife and she tells me it's all in my head but did you ever notice that when Latina women are speaking to each other, whether in person or on the phone, they talk real LOUD!!!!!!!!!

I mean LOUD!!!!!

Tell me I am not imagining this....

I bet my wife would give them a good run for their money!

 

[actaeon277]

[video=youtube;HXnn6SMj3O4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXnn6SMj3O4[/video]

 

[Kutnupe14]

From our talks I figured you may have had a Latina in your past.....So let me ask you this...I ask the wife and she tells me it's all in my head but did you ever notice that when Latina women are speaking to each other, whether in person or on the phone, they talk real LOUD!!!!!!!!!

I mean LOUD!!!!!

Tell me I am not imagining this....

Oh yeah, it's like they have to speak louder to make their point. Your totally not imagining that. When I got serious with my ex, her parents had a "sit down" with me, and informed me that they wanted bilingual grandchildren, so from that point on, they would no longer speak to me in English. Should've married that girl.

 

[Kutnupe14]

His mother drowned transporting him away from his father and the regime. It took a very insistent effort by the Cuban government and sympathetic Janet Reno to send in armed agents to retrieve him.

Fleeing from his father? What? That's not correct. Elian spent MOST of his time with his father (something like 4 or 5 days a week). Fleeing Cuba wasn't even his mother's idea, it was her new boyfriend, and mom decided to tag along and bring Elian. Obviously, the father didn't know. When Elian was discovered to be alive, his father, who had been the MAIN influence in his life, along with his grandmothers, justifiably wanted him back. Communist regime or no, he belonged with his father in Cuba.

If the people are dirt freaking poor right now, have a hard time getting food, and their lives are sh*t, they should just ask if things were better before or now before deciding if getting the f**k out of there is a worthwhile risk?

I do not find your idea of 'giving the regime today an honest look' to be rational in the least. The numbers of former Cubans returning are very small and usually have money already to start business and buy property (something only permitted since 2011). See, the change must come from the regime to make Cuba successful.

Ill address this a lil bit later.