Out of state handguns at range

[Lakefield22]

So, Indiana residents cannot go to the range with a handgun unless they have a permit. But what about residents of other states coming into the state to shoot?

I have friends from Kentucky and Ohio who come here to shoot in matches or go shooting on a friends farm. Some of these individuals do not have any kind of permit from their home state or anywhere else, so how does the state treat this situation?

 

[Scutter01]

You must have a valid license that Indiana recognizes (and IN recognizes all states' permits). The statute doesn't care if you are from out of state or not.

 

[kludge]

My interpretation is that if they bring their own gun from out of state to shoot they need a licence that Indiana recognizes (which is all of them).

If they go to a friends home, who has property to shoot on which is contiguous to the residence, and the friend has a handgun, and keeps it on his own property, and they all shoot that gun, then no one needs a license.

Otherwise, it's what Scutter said... If they come here to shoot matches, then presumable they are bringing their own gun, and they need a licence. If they can't get a license from their home state (e.g. IL, WI) then a FL or UT, or any other "out-of-state" license will keep them legal.

IANAL, etc.

 

[Mike Elzinga]

As an aside, IL and WI all have liscences. They cant carry, but they can own. USPSA nationals has repeatedly been held in Barry, IL. You wouldnt think so but that community is very very welcoming to the shooters.

 

[emclean]

Indiana residents cannot go to the range with a handgun unless they have a permit

wrong, Indiana residents cannot go to A STATE OWNED range with a handgun unless they have a permit.

Some of these individuals do not have any kind of permit from their home state or anywhere else, so how does the state treat this situation?

tell them not to carry, and not to shoot at a DNR sight.

You must have a valid license that Indiana recognizes (and IN recognizes all states' permits). The statute doesn't care if you are from out of state or not.

for a private property target range? I did not see anythign in IC 35-47 about target ranges, or any requirement for a permit to target shoot in Indiana. please correct me if i missed it.

 

[ATM]

wrong, Indiana residents cannot go to A STATE OWNED range with a handgun unless they have a permit.


tell them not to carry, and not to shoot at a DNR sight.


for a private property target range? I did not see anythign in IC 35-47 about target ranges, or any requirement for a permit to target shoot in Indiana. please correct me if i missed it.

They can't carry/transport in/to Indiana without a license unless they meet one of the exceptions to the law. Since target ranges are not mentioned in the exception, i.e not fixed place of business or place of repair, carry/transport to/at any range is illegal.

 

[IUGradStudent]

They can't carry/transport in/to Indiana without a license unless they meet one of the exceptions to the law. Since target ranges are not mentioned in the exception, i.e not fixed place of business or place of repair, carry/transport to/at any range is illegal.

This is exactly right.

As an aside, IL and WI all have liscences. They cant carry, but they can own. USPSA nationals has repeatedly been held in Barry, IL. You wouldnt think so but that community is very very welcoming to the shooters.

Hrm...that is interesting. So, they have to have a license to own a handgun, but there is no license to carry it. Unlike Indiana, they must have some law which permits the transportation of a handgun to various places even without a carry license (i.e. it must be legal to at least transport an unloaded/locked/disassembled (or something) handgun to and from the range/competition/etc).

I think it might depend on what the permit/license allows them to do and what the general law of IL allows them to do. If the license is what allows them to transport (unloaded, etc.), then I would think they would be OK to transport (unloaded, etc.) in Indiana. They would be doing what their permit in their state allows them to do -- that's what IN allows. But, if the IL permit/license merely allows possession, and there's some general IL law which allows the transportation (unloaded, etc.), independant of license-holding, then if the license holder transports the handgun in Indiana they are doing something not expressly permitted by the license. And, I would think that would be a no-no. Given that lots of non-IL license holders (all the people you said come to USPSA nationals in Barry) can transport handguns, I would guess it's general IL law which allows it and thus would be a problem for them if they came over here. Either way, the easiest answer is to get a Utah or FL non-resident permit and then you would be covered in IN.

I'll look forward to seeing if any former Illini can clear this up for us....

 

[Lakefield22]

This is interesting topic. It seems that many people that I know from surround states who travel here to shoot in matches are actually breaking the law. Heck, I would travel from Kentucky to shoot at Red Brush Range outside Evansville when I was a kid.

As an side note, Wisconsin does not have any kind of license for handguns (carry, purchase or otherwise)...atleast they did not as of 4 months ago when I moved out of the state.

 

[Mike Elzinga]

I know a number of guys from IL and WI that frequently shoot here. I am certain beyond a shadow of a doubt that they do so legally. They transport (unloaded and secured in the trunk) here, shoot, and return in the same manner they arrived. IL's FOID card (i believe) allows them transport rights in other states. I dont know WI's particular situation regarding permits but I do know people from there that shoot here regularly that have looked into the legal scenario and found themselves to be in compliance.

 

[cosermann]

Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice citizens' rights to relieve.

(My apologies to Sir Walter Scott.)

 

[melensdad]

I'm just thinking out loud but, . . .

Under federal law, (safe journey law) would not the out of state guns be legally transported and protected if they were transported from a legal place to a legal place? Therefore transporting a gun from a home in IL, KY, OH, etc into Indiana to a range would be legal because the gun was legal in the home state and legal at the destination point.

 

[Lakefield22]

But Indiana still requires that you have a license in order to have a handgun at a range. So, without a license, the range is not a legal destination.

I think you would have to check the reciprocity laws and how they read as to whether a IL license would be recognized. If it is recognized than that also raises the question of whether a IL resident can carry in IN. I rather doubt that IN would allow that.

As far as WI...it seems that unless they get a non-resident license from another state, they just cannot possess a handgun in IN.

 

[singlestacksig]

I know a number of guys from IL and WI that frequently shoot here. I am certain beyond a shadow of a doubt that they do so legally. They transport (unloaded and secured in the trunk) here, shoot, and return in the same manner they arrived. IL's FOID card (i believe) allows them transport rights in other states. I dont know WI's particular situation regarding permits but I do know people from there that shoot here regularly that have looked into the legal scenario and found themselves to be in compliance.

A FOID card is a Permit to own, not to carry.. so it does not meet Indiana LTCH requirments..
So one could not transport it in Indiana..
Now IF they are members of a CMP club AND going to an event at that same CMP clup , they would meet one of the exemptions..

 

[kludge]

I think you would have to check the reciprocity laws and how they read as to whether a IL license would be recognized. If it is recognized than that also raises the question of whether a IL resident can carry in IN. I rather doubt that IN would allow that.

You are correct. An FOID is not a carry license. Ergo, carrying or transporting a handgun IN on an IL FOID is not legal.

But Indiana still requires that you have a license in order to have a handgun at a range. So, without a license, the range is not a legal destination.

Sort of... People without a LTCH can rent a handgun from an FFL to shoot at the range (i.e. Pop Guns). If a gun dealer showing a gun to a customer, technically the person looking at the gun is in "possession" and "carrying", and technically the person w/o a LTCH renting a gun at a range is "possessing" and "carrying" but the way the law is written I can't see that that is the intent of the law -- this is why I said what I said in my first post about no one needing a LTCH. A friend at your home shooting your gun is like a person w/o a LTCH renting at a range.

If you transport unloaded and locked to a "place of repair" that happens to have a range... well, technically it might be a loophole, YMMV, IANAL, etc.; it's better just to get the license, since it will cost far less than hiring a lawyer. The prosecutor will try to prove your intent was to go to the range (proven by the fact that you went there, bought ammo and shot your gun), not get your gun repaired (evidenced by the fact that you don't have a repair bill), and you'd probably be convicted.

 

[melensdad]

But Indiana still requires that you have a license in order to have a handgun at a range.

I am unfamiliar with this law, can you show me the code?

 

[singlestacksig]

FindLaw | Cases and Codes

 

[singlestacksig]

I am unfamiliar with this law, can you show me the code?

Indiana Code 35-47-2

IC 35-47-2-1
Carrying a handgun without a license or by person convicted of domestic battery
Sec. 1. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b) and section 2 of this chapter, a person shall not carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body, except in the person's dwelling, on the person's property or fixed place of business, without a license issued under this chapter being in the person's possession.
(b) Unless the person's right to possess a firearm has been restored under IC 35-47-4-7, a person who has been convicted of domestic battery under IC 35-42-2-1.3 may not possess or carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body in the person's dwelling or on the person's property or fixed place of business.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32. Amended by P.L.326-1987, SEC.1; P.L.195-2003, SEC.6; P.L.98-2004, SEC.155; P.L.118-2007, SEC.35.

IC 35-47-2-2
Excepted persons
Sec. 2. Section 1 of this chapter does not apply to:
(1) marshals;
(2) sheriffs;
(3) the commissioner of the department of correction or persons authorized by him in writing to carry firearms;
(4) judicial officers;
(5) law enforcement officers;
(6) members of the armed forces of the United States or of the national guard or organized reserves while they are on duty;
(7) regularly enrolled members of any organization duly authorized to purchase or receive such weapons from the United States or from this state who are at or are going to or from their place of assembly or target practice;
(8) employees of the United States duly authorized to carry handguns;
(9) employees of express companies when engaged in company business;
(10) any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms or the agent or representative of any such person having in his possession, using, or carrying a handgun in the usual or ordinary course of that business; or
(11) any person while carrying a handgun unloaded and in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his dwelling or fixed place of business, or to a place of repair or back to his dwelling or fixed place of business, or in moving from one dwelling or business to another.

 

[melensdad]

Yup, I'm familiar with that. Where does it specifically say you need a License to have a gun at a range? I simply don't see that.

Now I realize that an Indiana resident cannot legally transport a gun TO the range without a license, but an out of state party should be covered by the safe journey provisions of federal law.

But as for having a gun AT the range, I see no language that requires a permit to have the gun AT the range.

 

[Scutter01]

Yup, I'm familiar with that. Where does it specifically say you need a License to have a gun at a range? I simply don't see that.

Now I realize that an Indiana resident cannot legally transport a gun TO the range without a license, but an out of state party should be covered by the safe journey provisions of federal law.

But as for having a gun AT the range, I see no language that requires a permit to have the gun AT the range.

Sec. 1. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b) and section 2 of this chapter, a person shall not carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body, except in the person's dwelling, on the person's property or fixed place of business, without a license issued under this chapter being in the person's possession.

Unless the range also has a gunsmith or is that person's place of business, then it's not a legal destination either under the Indiana statute or the Federal Peaceable Journey statute.

 

[melensdad]

Sec. 1. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b) and section 2 of this chapter, a person shall not carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body, except in the person's dwelling, on the person's property or fixed place of business, without a license issued under this chapter being in the person's possession.

Yes, I see that. It is very clear. Federal law allowing transporting guns from one legal place to another legal place across state lines would trump our state laws. Specifically it was asked about OUT OF STATE residents bringing guns to Indiana ranges. Would not the safe journey provisions apply to them and supersede Indiana law?