P320 Recall? Uhoh

[BE Mike]

Curious to see what Sig is going to do. This is bad, bad, bad for them. Free tabbed trigger upgrades?

I can't say that it would be that bad. Other manufacturers have had recalls and continue to have them. If they address the problem, as remote as it appears to be, they won't be hurt. I ain't sceered o my Sig P320, but if they come out with a reasonable modification, I'll jump on board.

 

[NyleRN]

So it seems to me that this issue is 99.9999% moot.

You've heard of that Murphy guy right?

 

[Route 45]

The Sig P250 was a piece of junk when it came out, and the P320 is nothing but a modified P250.
This is no surprise. The Army will find out soon enough.

 

[NyleRN]

Bruce Gray posted a response a couple days ago basically stating there's absolutely nothing wrong with the 320 in respect to drop safety. After the Omaha vid guys are asking him to weigh in. Well, crickets is all they hear. He might be busy trying to find that crow recipe

 

[BE Mike]

So it seems to me that this issue is 99.9999% moot. It is possible for a drop to cause an injury in the field? Yes. But it's also possible that I'd get attacked by a shark while snorkeling with a winning Powerball ticket in my shorts. Yet it is still somewhat improbable. I hope SIG is smart enough to avoid a Ford Pinto type of situation -- you cannot apply reason and rationality to what will certainly be an over-reaction by the public.

And there would be tremendous damage to the Sig brand if anything less that 100% was considered acceptable for the public.

As someone who has had a S&W revolver come out of an upside down shoulder holster and hit the floor on the hammer spur, hard enough to make it break off, I look at this very seriously. If my Sig P320 was going to be used as an EDC or duty gun, I would think twice about carrying it until a fix came out. Since mine is a range gun, I'll keep shooting it, as the possibility of it falling on a hard surface while loaded is very unlikely. Sig should have a fix, because a fault has been identified, even if the chance of an AD of this type is very, very unlikely.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I don't read all of your posts in every thread. I only responded to what you wrote on this one. If you already had inside information a long time ago, you didn't make that apparent, especially at the outset. I calls 'em likes I sees 'em. If it hurt your feelings, I apologize.

It started to seem like you were questioning my integrity. My integrity is important to me for both personal and professional reasons. That said, I appreciate the apology and if I read you wrong I also apologize. I can assure you I am not talking about my backside on this, pretending to know something I don't to look like one of the cool kids, regurgitating rumors, etc. I also don't have some grudge against Sig. Other than a Shield and a 1911, every single semi-auto I personally own is a Sig. My sole concern is that people have the information to make their own decisions, because trust me the makers and their biggest customers aren't going to line up to tell you.

Back to the topic at hand:

Let's circle back to that qualifier of "U.S. Commercial market" in Sig's statement: There have been zero (0) reported drop-related P320 incidents in the U.S. commercial market, with hundreds of thousands of guns delivered to date.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_bcq0WcWuxWN3l1SHkwQ243TWs/view

According to the lawsuit, on Jan 5th, 2017, an officer was loading his duty gear into the trunk of his car. He dropped his "fully holstered" P320, which discharged while inside the holster and shot him in the left knee.

You don't put qualifiers in a statement unless you're hiding something.
Q) Did you poach a deer?
A)I didn't poach a deer in this county.

It sounds like you answered the question, and it let you answer without lying. But it leaves open the possibility you poached a deer out of county, and someone who's never poached a deer wouldn't put the qualifier on it.

So, its starting to look like some guns (or more likely, some batches of guns) are more prone to this than others, and some seem capable of discharging from drops lower than what I'd understood and earlier stated. Others are completely immune. Nobody who's talking seems to know what the link is, if certain s/n ranges are more at risk than others, etc. I think you'll start to see more info come out. It's tough to put the genie back in the bottle with this many eyes on it.

 

[00Buck]

It has created enough concern that the Indiana State Police has pulled all issued Sig p320 compacts from service. They will remain out of service until Sig comes up with a resolution in reference to the Dallas PD claim.

 

[Trigger Time]

If you're gonna steal a design at least make it work right

 

[BE Mike]

It started to seem like you were questioning my integrity. My integrity is important to me for both personal and professional reasons. That said, I appreciate the apology and if I read you wrong I also apologize. I can assure you I am not talking about my backside on this, pretending to know something I don't to look like one of the cool kids, regurgitating rumors, etc. I also don't have some grudge against Sig. Other than a Shield and a 1911, every single semi-auto I personally own is a Sig. My sole concern is that people have the information to make their own decisions, because trust me the makers and their biggest customers aren't going to line up to tell you.

Back to the topic at hand:

Let's circle back to that qualifier of "U.S. Commercial market" in Sig's statement: There have been zero (0) reported drop-related P320 incidents in the U.S. commercial market, with hundreds of thousands of guns delivered to date.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_bcq0WcWuxWN3l1SHkwQ243TWs/view

According to the lawsuit, on Jan 5th, 2017, an officer was loading his duty gear into the trunk of his car. He dropped his "fully holstered" P320, which discharged while inside the holster and shot him in the left knee.

You don't put qualifiers in a statement unless you're hiding something.
Q) Did you poach a deer?
A)I didn't poach a deer in this county.

It sounds like you answered the question, and it let you answer without lying. But it leaves open the possibility you poached a deer out of county, and someone who's never poached a deer wouldn't put the qualifier on it.

So, its starting to look like some guns (or more likely, some batches of guns) are more prone to this than others, and some seem capable of discharging from drops lower than what I'd understood and earlier stated. Others are completely immune. Nobody who's talking seems to know what the link is, if certain s/n ranges are more at risk than others, etc. I think you'll start to see more info come out. It's tough to put the genie back in the bottle with this many eyes on it.

We're good. I just hope Sig takes the high road on this rather than the low road, like Remington and, dare I say, Glock have in the past.

 

[M67]

If you're gonna steal a design at least make it work right

What did they steal?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

BREAKING: TTAG Test Shows P320 Striker-Fired Pistols Are Not Drop-Safe - The Truth About Guns

Plus a lot of individual testers are easily replicating this. The problem is either more wide spread than I would have thought, or the newest ones rolling off the line are more prone to the issue.

It appears the reason higher drop heights led to unwanted noise in the real world wasn't the velocity, it was the chance to rotate to the orientation needed to go bang.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

What did they steal?

Steyr sued them for patent infringement, although I have no idea how much merit the lawsuit has.

https://insight.rpxcorp.com/lit/alndce-162429-steyr-arms-v-sig-sauer

 

[M67]

Steyr sued them for patent infringement, although I have no idea how much merit the lawsuit has.

https://insight.rpxcorp.com/lit/alndce-162429-steyr-arms-v-sig-sauer

Huh, didn't hear about that. Looks like they tried getting Beretta too

 

[BehindBlueI's]

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/handguns/411232-thinking-sig.html#post6595511

You'll note I posted about this last June, so actually over a year ago. Sig, or at least someone(s) with a paycheck signed by Sig, was/were aware of this longer ago than that. That's the most concerning part for me if this is more widespread. That starts to make you wonder if the issue is incompetence (decision makers not listening to the people who knew) or just keeping quiet until major contracts are acquired, than try and fix it.

 

[Stickfight]

One thing that came to mind after watching the video is that they did the drop test on the full size P 320. I wonder if the compact and sub-compact would be subject to the same thing since their slide masses are less, therefore transferring less energy?

I don't know what all has been linked so far, but in the TTAG article at
BREAKING: Omaha Outdoors Halts Sales of SIG SAUER P320 Pistols Following Failed Drop Testing - The Truth About Guns
they indicate Oklahoma Outdoors dropped a Tacops, 2 Compact 45s, and an X5. The only one that didn't fire when dropped was the X5.

Slide mass won't matter if the problem is the momentum of the trigger itself as all model will impact the test surface at the same velocity. OO hypothesizes that X5 didn't fire due to having a lighter trigger shoe, thus less kinetic energy at impact. They are likely correct.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

BREAKING: SIG SAUER Offers Voluntary Trigger Upgrade for P320 Pistols - The Truth About Guns

Recent events indicate that dropping the P320 beyond U.S. standards for safety may cause an unintentional discharge.As a result of input from law enforcement, government, and military customers, SIG has developed a number of enhancements in function, reliability, and overall safety including drop performance. SIG SAUER is offering these enhancements to its customers. Details of this program will be available at sigsauer.com on Monday, August 14, 2017.
The M17 variant of the P320, selected by the U.S. Government as the U.S. Army’s Modular Handgun System (MHS), is not affected by the Voluntary Upgrade.

Lulz. Don't want your gun to shoot you in the knee if you drop it? "Voluntary upgrade". "As a result of input from law enforcement, government, and military customers" on the heels of "we're unaware of...U.S. Commercial market" Shady.

 

[Fordtough25]

I saw Recoil magazine was at SIG this morning and eh said they were going to be dropping pistols!

Sig Sauer Issues Voluntary Upgrade for P320 | RECOIL

 

[Expat]

I saw Recoil magazine was at SIG this morning and eh said they were going to be dropping pistols!

Sig Sauer Issues Voluntary Upgrade for P320 | RECOIL

Just saw that on FB. Moving quicker than I expected...

 

[NyleRN]

BREAKING: SIG SAUER Offers Voluntary Trigger Upgrade for P320 Pistols - The Truth About Guns



Lulz. Don't want your gun to shoot you in the knee if you drop it? "Voluntary upgrade". "As a result of input from law enforcement, government, and military customers" on the heels of "we're unaware of...U.S. Commercial market" Shady.

My thoughts exactly. They won't call it what it is. A spade is a spade. "May cause unintentional discharge"--uh, did you guys not watch the vid? I think there were several unintentional discharges

 

[Route 45]