Personal Protection in Close Quarters, agree or disagree??

[bigiron]

i was fortunate to have the opportunity to go through a gunsite defensice pistol session many years ago. the five step was taught in that session but i don't remember being told to place the off hand behind my head. to the best of my memory, i believe the instructor(i don't remember who but Lou was there, not teaching this course) taught us to place the off hand over our abdomen keeping it clear of the muzzle. in this stance, the off hand can be used for defensive purposes if needed, i.e. a good left hook once the shot was fired. i still practice this technique today.

 

[esrice]

the five step was taught in that session but i don't remember being told to place the off hand behind my head.

What you're describing is the 5 steps of a standard draw.

Putting your hand up to your head like that (regardless of if its behind your head or to the side or wherever) is an additional technique taught for shooting from a retention position (where the gun is pulled in tight to the shooter's body, as seen in the picture a few posts above). Its this technique that is being debated in this particular thread.

 

[Cheapdiesel]

This is the way I train for close quarters combat with a gun. The relitive part starts at about 4:04. [ame]http://youtu.be/c06mH6x2Ntc[/ame]
The left hand needs to be up in a defensive position not sure about holding my head like in the OP.

 

[brutalone]

This is the way I train for close quarters combat with a gun. The relitive part starts at about 4:04. http://youtu.be/c06mH6x2Ntc
The left hand needs to be up in a defensive position not sure about holding my head like in the OP.

This is considerably better..... Key phrases are.... Any rounds on enemy are good for you and bad for them..... and..... These will not be the only shots on target.....
This is why I do 9mm over 45..... Forget the "one shot stopping" ability in a defensive situation..... Fire until the threat is no longer a threat...
Firing starts as soon as muzzle is pointed towards target and does not stop until the threat level from the target is zero....

 

[iChokePeople]

IANAPFIOALT(Professional Firearms Instructor or anything like that...), but it seems to me that the "left" (non-firing, unless you're one of those circus sideshow lefty freaks) is mostly dependent on the situation... MAYBE it's in a defensive position at chest level, if the threat is there. MAYBE it's on its way toward your firing hand to reinforce that grip. MAYBE it's in the "monkey fend" or "ram" (head covering techniques) position. MAYBE it's throwing a good stiff arm to gain space, or jabbing to the nose, or a quick eye jab. MAYBE it's trying to control an attacker's knife hand just long enough to draw and ventilate his torso... I don't get how you think you can define up front what the right position/technique is. One thing I like about the Suarez video is that he DOESN'T try to define that, but leaves it to "doing something up here", or words to that effect.

 

[GIJEW]

I think the method is sound. The only changes I make, are to step back (more llike how I learned to hip shoot with a rifle/sub-machine gun) and keeping my weak hand in front like a sheild--until they go for my head and THEN raise my arm to cover it.

 

[Shay]

until they go for my head and THEN raise my arm to cover it.

By the time you realize they are are "going for your head" it might be too late. Action beats reaction.

 

[GIJEW]

By the time you realize they are are "going for your head" it might be too late. Action beats reaction.

True, so do you choose your arm position depending on the assailants' weapon: knife, club, pistol? I keep mine in front of my torso as a default postition because that's where it is when I clear my pistol--if the assailant is using a club, protecting your head instead of your ribs is a no brainer.

 

[Steve MI]

Having been in more real fights in my life than i care to recall, and doing it for a living the elbow position is very real and very valid and framing ones head to protect it in attacks from blows and blunt objects and sharp ones is very real those that live in cubes and offices and other places were bad things don't often happen to them except IT guys not showing up on time wont get it or those whom haven't had some one try to kick the **** out of them since middle school until it happens.
it has happened to me more than once, be it a shank to a milk crate to mop bucket ringer to a mini baseball bat the ttp of the guard has saved my ass more than once...

Gunsight has fallen so far behind the times in there training it isnt even funny. hard time lost of revenue and trying to reinvent themselves has them in scrambling for something...... its a shame but it happens the idea of the speed rock position is often a no go in a real fight unless pinned to an object car or wall etc force and balance is key here...

also the close contact position isn't in danger of malfunctioning your gun the position they show can be more of a problem do to loose clothing, jackets, draw strings and more

 

[iChokePeople]

...were bad things don't often happen to them except IT guys not showing up on time wont get it or those whom haven't had some one try to kick the **** out of them since middle school until it happens.
it has happened to me more than once, be it a shank to a milk crate to mop bucket ringer to a mini baseball bat the ttp of the guard has saved my ass more than once...

Cough cough... I'm an IT guy cough cough.

 

[IndyGunner]

why does he still have the tag on his hat

 

[rhino]

No disagreement on keeping the arm/elbow up there, but do you latch your hand to the back of your head or neck?

Having been in more real fights in my life than i care to recall, and doing it for a living the elbow position is very real and very valid and framing ones head to protect it in attacks from blows and blunt objects and sharp ones is very real those that live in cubes and offices and other places were bad things don't often happen to them except IT guys not showing up on time wont get it or those whom haven't had some one try to kick the **** out of them since middle school until it happens.
it has happened to me more than once, be it a shank to a milk crate to mop bucket ringer to a mini baseball bat the ttp of the guard has saved my ass more than once...

Gunsight has fallen so far behind the times in there training it isnt even funny. hard time lost of revenue and trying to reinvent themselves has them in scrambling for something...... its a shame but it happens the idea of the speed rock position is often a no go in a real fight unless pinned to an object car or wall etc force and balance is key here...

also the close contact position isn't in danger of malfunctioning your gun the position they show can be more of a problem do to loose clothing, jackets, draw strings and more

 

[Steve MI]

No i don't it usually forces the head down there is time i run my forarm down the center line of back of head to fingers touching were back of head and neck meet pending the attack and how it unfolded as it offers a higher guard and more frontal protection and rear of head..

I have used this position while also working complete dark houses to avoid bumping my head on open doors and more objects in some situations as well

 

[rhino]

No i don't it usually forces the head down there is time i run my forarm down the center line of back of head to fingers touching were back of head and neck meet pending the attack and how it unfolded as it offers a higher guard and more frontal protection and rear of head..

I have used this position while also working complete dark houses to avoid bumping my head on open doors and more objects in some situations as well

That makes more sense to me, thank you sir!

I know that when I put my left hand on the back of my head or neck, my forearm is nowhere near protecting my head. Body mechanics vary, of course, what with my t-rex arms and shoulder injuries. I can and have used that forearm alongside the head like that, but not with the hand way back there.

 

[mercop]

That is not the way we teach it. We find that it encourage the shooter to stand still even if they are be rushed with a weapon such as a knife or club. Focus on anatomy and then add the gun, not the other way around. The pistol is only part of the fight I want to see this played out in force on force cardboard.- George