please help to add to this

[Yellowjeep]

I have an 8 and 5 year old. So im on thinking over load this weekend. Im already sick of all the gun band talk so i want to discuss a real fix. Here is my idea and give me pro,cons,a better idea,or just curse me out. So lets say we are going to try and get the gunfree zones dropped at schools, how can we help our kids with that.Well as a parent im involved in sports,plays,selling cookies,book fairs,and homework. Why can't parents be involved in the security of my childs school... The fight between both sides is cops at every school is to costly,takes away from the city protection,and one cop can't watch every door. Or teachers are not trained to carry weapons and so on. The other side says to many guns, take them away or make it impossible to get a gun and so on. IF and a big IF they would drop gun free zone areas around schools we as parents could get a protection plan together to protect our kids. There are 6 ways to get into my kids school and there is no doubt we could find 10 parent at all times protecting the school. The pros.... Its free, no tax money.. That would make the school (what the news media calls) heavlly armed. cons....people will not like untrained gun toting wantabe cops around there kids.i hear it now. not all schools will do this because just like everything at schools, you have the schools where every parent is involved and you have schools where you don't know if the kids have parents. So i see the its not fair card being played like always. Well first how to fix the cons.. lets say if your a parent you have to pass a safty course or defensive course or what have you to be able to go to school and sign up. Trust me as much as i spend on my kids this will be the best money spent. That way you child is not walking around a dad that bought a gun for the first time on the way there.....but remember this cost tax payers nothing it also adds jobs because we will need training. As far as not all schools will do it well thats there choice, but at least it gives the parents a way of protecting there kids. I have a feeling alot of poor schools will want the protection but won't put the work in themselves to get it.Even then there are volunteers that would get the training and help if the parents are willing to pay...or fund raising for the school to get the money,you get the idea. This is also something teachers and staff can participate in... So even if your getting no parents to help at least teachers have a way to help. Its not perfect but at least its a plan, and just like any plan it does not protect every situation. but it atleast takes away our kids being picked off like sitting ducks... please tell me what you think what else am i missing or not adding... ITs time we start fixing this and not sitting around saying here comes the gun bands

 

[jjordan2840]

I would absolutely volunteer at my kids school. They lock all the doors but the front main door. You are supposed to sign in at the office, but nobody stops you if you don't. There are two hallways you can go down before even coming to the office. Once in the halls, there are no doors to the class rooms. I see no protection for them and it infuriates me..

 

[GBuck]

I would volunteer my time.

ETA: Start here.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/rid-usa-gun-free-zones/bRfxLDYn

 

[indykid]

I band my firearms to keep them from falling over in my safe.

The antis are trying to ban firearms.

Thank you, this is one of my few pet peeves.

I now return to reclusive state.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I've already detailed a plan in another thread. I wouldn't trust volunteers for an active shooter situation. Its not the same as self-defense, its self-defense, actively seeking a target, triage, and riot control all rolled into one. If you've never seen battle or done realistic training, its very difficult to grasp how the mind reacts. Your brain has a limit to how much it can process at one time, and you NEED training to respond accordingly to such a chaotic event.

Here's what I said in the other thread:

Why not just hire a few off duty LEO's? IPL does it to guard sub-stations when copper thefts are up, I think the schools could probably do it, too.

Arming faculty is fine IF they are also trained. Self-defense is one thing and the basics can be grasped with very limited training, but active shooter response requires training of a higher order, and good scenario based training with lots of role players. Frankly, most PDs don't practice this enough. Other than combat veterans, few people can really understand the chaos that an in progress shooting is and how quickly your senses get overwhelmed.

Friendly fire is a very real situation with multiple plain clothes folks armed. I'm a detective and when I respond to a call that isn't already secured by uniformed officers I give a description of myself and my clothing over the air. Anyone armed in the school needs to have coordinated training with the PD, communications with the PD, etc.

Frankly, schools should be hardened targets. The doors should be locked and difficult to breach, parents and vendors should meet in a vestibule, and there should be a cadre of armed security on site. Hire a force protection specialist, let them analyze the building and then listen to the recommendations.

 

[old man Bill]

There are. and will continue to be, many good, and some not so good, ideas on how we can deal with the violence in our country. I really don't think the idea of having civilians "guarding the schools" will play because of the liability factor. The reality is that, should there be an occurrence and a civilian defender was to discharge his firearm and if a stray bullet struck an unsuspecting individual the ensuing litigation would be more than any school board would consider acceptable risk. This is not to say that this idea could not be incorporated in some manner into a civilian defense program. Not many ideas that are generated are all good or all bad, that's where communication and compromise enter the picture. My thinking is that we are addressing the symptoms and results of the root issue, not the cause. Blaming guns for the violence is not unlike blaming knives and forks for Rosie O'Donnell being overweight. Law enforcement can only examine and report on what has happened, they cannot protect against unexpected or unpredictable violence. The root issue is happening somewhere, or being prepared for somewhere, as we read these posts and we will learn of the results as we watch it on the news and read of it in the papers.
My question is this, in all of the cases of mass shootings, blowing up occupied buildings and attacks on the public in any manner, did the perpetrator have his biological father living in the home where he dwells? Did he have a positive, moral male roll model in his life? This people, is prevention as it was designed by our creator. It will work if we, as men, will step into the lives of the youth in our communities even beyond our own families. We can effect change but it will take effort, time and patience along with a large amount of love; love for our fellow man, our country and for the youth we are here to train up in the way of the Lord.
I'm removing my soap box now and putting it away.
Bill

 

[jb1911]

I band my firearms to keep them from falling over in my safe.

The antis are trying to ban firearms.

Thank you, this is one of my few pet peeves.

I now return to reclusive state.

I couldn't even finish reading the OP.

 

[phylodog]

I believe the mere presence of an armed opponent would prevent future school shootings. The people who engage in this behavior are not looking for a fight and they kill themselves before being confronted in the vast majority of the situations. The ounce of prevention vs a pound of cure saying comes to mind.

I say arm and train the faculty members who are willing.

 

[KoopaKGB]

I believe the mere presence of an armed opponent would prevent future school shootings. The people who engage in this behavior are not looking for a fight and they kill themselves before being confronted in the vast majority of the situations. The ounce of prevention vs a pound of cure saying comes to mind.

I say arm and train the faculty members who are willing.

I don't think thats practical. Teachers spend so much time teaching that I wouldnt want them to have to either
A) have less free time and additional training.
B) instead of doing teacher things, they're teacher time is spent on security concerns, which to me detracts from them being a teacher.

I know in my movie theater there is off duty cops standing at the entrance I dont expect them to stop a full on mass shooting. I still CC while I go on the off chance that somebody bent on evil will find ways to avoid walking thru the front door as the start of their plan, they'll pry use the back door... Same thing with schools. I drive along a road with a school that has a playground full of children at recess. It wouldnt matter if there was a couple armed teachers somewhere in the building. The kids themselves are still soft targets. Other then actually protecting the perimeter of the school grounds, which is no way going to happen with our current fiscal budget, theres not many choices.

Heres my completely unethical solution to curb these events... Punish the parents of these mass shooters. Oh that Lanza boy killed 20 little children? Maybe now his family or whatever he values is destroyed. So the next mass shooter wannabee might think its not such a good idea anymore.

I cant think of another way to make a person bent on doing these things think twice. I mean if the person doesn't believe they will go to hell, then what on this earth would convince somebody thinking about killing 20 innocent children, that maybe they shouldnt do it. Oh yeah we're supposed to have health services help people with mental health problems but not everybody has insurance or even seeks treatment. Clearly.

 

[Yellowjeep]

i also would love to have the pros gaurd my kids school but i think that will never work money wise. As far as training,i totally see your concerns and would say we need to develope the nessasary training what ever the cost. I just wish i had that option. I also agree that they are looking for no fight and if they knew there could be it might stop them. Last indykid your in the wrong damn state if you don't like the wrong way we talk. but i will work on that one

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

I don't think thats practical. Teachers spend so much time teaching that I wouldnt want them to have to either
A) have less free time and additional training.
B) instead of doing teacher things, they're teacher time is spent on security concerns, which to me detracts from them being a teacher.

IGUANA

Because I carry a Kahr in my pocket, does it make me a less efficient programmer? Come on... I train with it as much as anyone would - does that make me a worse programmer?

If someone walks into my place of business hell bent on causing trouble I respond. appropriately. considering the background.

We're NOT asking them to be cops. We're putting tools in their hands. In the Newtown incident, the principal and two other office staff went running TOWARD things when they heard the shooting. Two of them did not live to make it home Friday night. They violated the first rule of the gunfight. (Bring a gun). It would be TOUGHER for any one of us in a mall. Yet we are allowed to carry.

Again - the problem can be HELPED, not SOLVED by simply not stripping teachers of their rights because of their profession. Don't require them to do it, just get the hell out of the way. The same way that we get out of the way for the rest of us LTCH holders.

Phylo - your approach makes sense as well. And I agree, they are looking for a place to make their "statement", then they do themselves in once confronted. I say, confront them as early and often as possible!. That saves lives - and was proven in Clackamas Oregon - if that story proves to be true.

 

[Yellowjeep]

well said

 

[KJQ6945]

I agree. We need to allow people to carry and that will propably eliminate future threats.

We don't need professional security, IMO, because we don't have professionals attacking. We have a bunch of nut jobs that got all of their training from Call of Duty, and they're seeking out the undefended among us.

Allow people to defend themselves. The governing body that passes these gun free zones should be held responsible. When they pass ordinances and laws that remove your ability to defend your self, they've assumed the duty to protect. They are failing miserably.

 

[slackerisme]

What genre of music will these bands be playing?

I have an 8 and 5 year old. So im on thinking over load this weekend. Im already sick of all the gun band talk so i want to discuss a real fix. Here is my idea and give me pro,cons,a better idea,or just curse me out. So lets say we are going to try and get the gunfree zones dropped at schools, how can we help our kids with that.Well as a parent im involved in sports,plays,selling cookies,book fairs,and homework. Why can't parents be involved in the security of my childs school... The fight between both sides is cops at every school is to costly,takes away from the city protection,and one cop can't watch every door. Or teachers are not trained to carry weapons and so on. The other side says to many guns, take them away or make it impossible to get a gun and so on. IF and a big IF they would drop gun free zone areas around schools we as parents could get a protection plan together to protect our kids. There are 6 ways to get into my kids school and there is no doubt we could find 10 parent at all times protecting the school. The pros.... Its free, no tax money.. That would make the school (what the news media calls) heavlly armed. cons....people will not like untrained gun toting wantabe cops around there kids.i hear it now. not all schools will do this because just like everything at schools, you have the schools where every parent is involved and you have schools where you don't know if the kids have parents. So i see the its not fair card being played like always. Well first how to fix the cons.. lets say if your a parent you have to pass a safty course or defensive course or what have you to be able to go to school and sign up. Trust me as much as i spend on my kids this will be the best money spent. That way you child is not walking around a dad that bought a gun for the first time on the way there.....but remember this cost tax payers nothing it also adds jobs because we will need training. As far as not all schools will do it well thats there choice, but at least it gives the parents a way of protecting there kids. I have a feeling alot of poor schools will want the protection but won't put the work in themselves to get it.Even then there are volunteers that would get the training and help if the parents are willing to pay...or fund raising for the school to get the money,you get the idea. This is also something teachers and staff can participate in... So even if your getting no parents to help at least teachers have a way to help. Its not perfect but at least its a plan, and just like any plan it does not protect every situation. but it atleast takes away our kids being picked off like sitting ducks... please tell me what you think what else am i missing or not adding... ITs time we start fixing this and not sitting around saying here comes the gun bands

 

[slackerisme]

I would volunteer my time.

ETA: Start here.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/rid-usa-gun-free-zones/bRfxLDYn

Interesting, there were somewhere in the order of 2000 sigs on that one yesterday.

 

[LarryC]

I band my firearms to keep them from falling over in my safe.

The antis are trying to ban firearms.

Thank you, this is one of my few pet peeves.

I now return to reclusive state.

One of MY FEW pet peeves are people that think their version of English is very important to everyone - (it really - really isn't and is really is a waste of my time to read your infantile response. By the way although I do understand what you mean, but your sentence does not make sense as "antis" refer to someone against something, but you did not define that "something".
My last post regarding correct use of the English language or misspelling of words.

 

[Yellowjeep]

What does everyone think about better training for the kids. It's still something they will use forever so it's not wasted time. My kids are trained to hide or get out. just like the kids that were killed.But the only way out is the door, what about a one way emergency door or window so each class room had another way out. ( of coarse one story schools) better doors in class rooms to keep them out. Of course this will cost money. Ideas

 

[bloodandgutsmurphy]

I would not the extra rise in my taxes if my local police deptartment would hire more officers to protect our schools.

 

[SmokinSigs357]

yeah, more cops in the schools and better designs.

armed volunteers or teachers is a great idea until one of them lose their marbles and shoot everybody up...

 

[BTSTEVE]

Decline of society, I am sure we will continue to see more of this violence. Gun free zones are a waste. Armed people at the school, whoever they are would be better than gun free. Otherwise the criminal can come in, shoot any resistance and do what ever evil they want. If they ran into actual armed resistance it may reduce casualties in these situations. How to convince the anti gun and other pacifist that we need to defend ourselves is the question.