Point Shooting

[OWGEM]

I'm not even sure if this is the correct terminology. I have been practicing drawing from concealment and firing either 2 to COM or 2 to COM 1 to head. This has been done at seven and ten yards. I'm shooting once a week and about 100 rounds a week.

Today I decided to try closer targets and set up the two at between 1- 2 yards and 3-4 yards. At these ranges I found I could trim off about .3 sec for the first shot by point shooting rather than using the front sight. Still was hitting COM. I also fired 4 rounds each target just so I would not get stuck with a habit of 2. Got 4 off on each target in about 3.25 seconds.

I think the majority of the faster time is the point shooting, although I have been practicing the draw fairly regularly.
Thoughts ? Suggestions?

Anyone find similar results? Is this a good idea or should I stick to front sight only?

 

[THard6]

to me it's a matter of what you can handle or what you do best. in a serious situation you're not gonna remember oh yeah "front sight 2 shots".. it'll just happen! lol
but i think it's great you are finding the time to shoot and get more comfortable with the firearm..
i'd say switch it up if you want to "learn more" try shooting and quick draw with your left paw and try different sized guns and cals.

why not..? good luck!

 

[OWGEM]

Thanks for the suggestions.
I literally am unable to shoot with the left hand due to an old injury. I am shooting 9mm for several reasons, mostly for consistency and cost of ammo. I do switch EDC from time to time however they are both Glocks, again for consistency.

You bring up a good point however, I should practice shooting one handed as well.

 

[David Rose]

OWGEM

Dave Spaulding put it fairly succinctly “Everybody Point Shoots”. That is to say from the holster to your line of sight the movement of the gun is all done through body mechanics. Only when the gun is in front of your eyes and relatively lined up do the sights come into play at all. There are many situations that could make the use of sights impossible; there are also many situations that make the use of sights critically important. It is wise to prepare for both. Add in some drills where a third party decides which is necessary, as in Rob Pincus’ SEB drill, and you will be well on your way to reacting to a bad situation with the right amount of precision to match the circumstances. Sounds like your doing a great job, keep it up.

Dave Rose

 

[96firephoenix]

are you 100% unable to shoot left handed or are you unable to shoot 9mm LH? could you shoot .22 Lefty or can you not shoot at all? some people have a diff't definition of "unable," so I"m asking.

I think the whole "point shooting" method is pretty effective, and it also encourages trigger discipline. If you're pointing down the barrel, your finger is off the bang switch.

 

[OWGEM]

100% unable to shoot with the left hand. Due to a wrist injury my left hand will not align with the forearm. So I am unable to hold a handgun and look down the barrel. Not sure I could even retain the handgun once fired.

Like I said, I'm not sure my terminology is correct. When I say point shooting I mean firing before the gun is brought to eye level, I do have the finger on the trigger, but not a sight picture.

 

[96firephoenix]

ok, thanks for clarifying. What I mean by point shooting is pointing your trigger finger down the slide and pointing at what you want to shoot, then engaging the trigger.

 

[mercop]

To actually take advantage of your natural pointing ability you need to step back with your weak side foot, and the pistol should be turned slighting inward at a 45 degree angle, just as it is when you are pointing your finger. Pointing is natural, just do it with the gun- George

 

[96firephoenix]

To actually take advantage of your natural pointing ability you need to step back with your weak side foot, and the pistol should be turned slighting inward at a 45 degree angle, just as it is when you are pointing your finger. Pointing is natural, just do it with the gun- George

I naturally do it with my hand vertical or horizontal just as often as I naturally do it at a 45 degree angle like you say...

 

[NIFT]

You might consider a good ECQ class.
I can vouch for Tactical Defense Institute-Ohio and the ECQ class offered. Go here for more information:
Tactical Defense Institute - CQPC, Knife & Cane -- Close Quarters Personal Control Class

 

[esrice]

There are many situations that could make the use of sights impossible; there are also many situations that make the use of sights critically important. It is wise to prepare for both.

+1

Think of it as just another "tool" in your "toolbox".

 

[rhino]

I think that making it a dichotomy (i.e. sighted fire vs. point shooting) as if it's an either/or situation is not a great idea. This is in no way an original thought of mine, but how you get the gun aligned with your target is a continuum. Brian Enos coined the phrase "see what you need to see." I interpret that to mean that you need adequate visual information to make a specific shot. Some shots require more feedback from the sights and some less. Distance, position, size, moving/still, speed, etc. all affect this continuum and the only way for an individual to know what their visual needs are for any givien shot is to experiment.

 

[GuyRelford]

To actually take advantage of your natural pointing ability you need to step back with your weak side foot, and the pistol should be turned slighting inward at a 45 degree angle, just as it is when you are pointing your finger. Pointing is natural, just do it with the gun- George

Perfectly stated. +1

 

[mrortega]

Perfectly stated. +1

The video that came with one of my Crimson Trace purchases (I think) had a pistolero who used a drill whereby he drew his 1911 style piece and engaged a target at arms length. He drew and fired rapidly from the hip as he quickly stepped back. The farther back he got the higher his weapon came and the farther out from his body until he was able to point or aim at full arms length. If you are very close to your target you won't be able to point out without risking the BG being able to grab your gun but farther away you can finish the business if need be by aiming your shots with the sights.

 

[OWGEM]

Sometime back I tried firing from the hip. My Glock FTE. Repeatedly. I concluded I was limp wristing at that position. I have since learned a recommended position is from the position where your two handed grip begins, in other words at the chest, the second point in the draw.

 

[David Rose]

Rhino
When the gun is in your line of sight there is absolutely a continuum of sighted fire. I suggested the SEB drill to address that exact concern, with the added benefit of training for the reactive nature of defensive shooting.

OWGEM
Shooting from the chest ready position is an excellent skill to practice. If you are finding shooting positions you can’t get to work for you, first make sure you're doing them right, then if they still don’t work for you, move on. Focus on the techniques you can do and become highly skilled at them. Being able to pull off a few “Go To” techniques under stress is far more valuable to your personal safety than being an encyclopedia of skills you can’t do on demand.

 

[mercop]

I naturally do it with my hand vertical or horizontal just as often as I naturally do it at a 45 degree angle like you say...

I am happy for you, keep doing what you are doing if it works for you.


That speedrock bull **** may work on targets but is a failure during force on force. I was forced to teach that when I started in the firearms unit for my PD. Why the hell would you put the pistol on the outside of your silhouette and expect to get COM shots on the target. You were taught to do an open hand strike with your weak hand while your strong hand drew the gun. I changed thing but setting up two targets. The first one you would panic push, before side stepping left and engaging the target using default targeting. They usually went over the right shoulder. It also encouraged the shooter to stand flat footed and fixate on the gun instead of movement.

Also trying to figure out the need for a laser at contact distance. Just something else to bolt onto the gun instead of spending money on some training, blue gun, airsoft, and more live ammo.- George

 

[cedartop]

I am happy for you, keep doing what you are doing if it works for you.


That speedrock bull **** may work on targets but is a failure during force on force. I was forced to teach that when I started in the firearms unit for my PD. Why the hell would you put the pistol on the outside of your silhouette and expect to get COM shots on the target. You were taught to do an open hand strike with your weak hand while your strong hand drew the gun. I changed thing but setting up two targets. The first one you would panic push, before side stepping left and engaging the target using default targeting. They usually went over the right shoulder. It also encouraged the shooter to stand flat footed and fixate on the gun instead of movement.

Also trying to figure out the need for a laser at contact distance. Just something else to bolt onto the gun instead of spending money on some training, blue gun, airsoft, and more live ammo.- George

Right you are George. We might not go about it the same exact way, but both agree the "speed rock" is bs.

 

[cedartop]

I'm not even sure if this is the correct terminology. I have been practicing drawing from concealment and firing either 2 to COM or 2 to COM 1 to head. This has been done at seven and ten yards. I'm shooting once a week and about 100 rounds a week.

Today I decided to try closer targets and set up the two at between 1- 2 yards and 3-4 yards. At these ranges I found I could trim off about .3 sec for the first shot by point shooting rather than using the front sight. Still was hitting COM. I also fired 4 rounds each target just so I would not get stuck with a habit of 2. Got 4 off on each target in about 3.25 seconds.

I think the majority of the faster time is the point shooting, although I have been practicing the draw fairly regularly.
Thoughts ? Suggestions?

Anyone find similar results? Is this a good idea or should I stick to front sight only?

Sounds like you are on the right track. My only caution would be, at the closest distances, do not go to full extension. At this distance you can easily run into a retention problem. Wasn't clear from this post where in the drawstroke continuum you were firing your shots from.

 

[rhino]

Right you are George. We might not go about it the same exact way, but both agree the "speed rock" is bs.

Hey, come on, now! The speed rock works.

If you're wearing a metal-lined quick draw competition holster on your thigh.

And the target is stationary.

And not trying to kill you.

And you're shooting blanks.