Police FAIL in California

[phylodog]

14 rounds fired over the course of 15 minutes does not constitute spray and pray.

Backing out may have been the very thing they wanted most but if backing out involves exposing myself from cover while someone is trying to kill me with a rifle, guess who isn't going anywhere?

We had a situation in a house last year where a couple of officers were trapped in the basement of a house with an armed suspect shooting at other officers upstairs. It happens.

Hindsight is sooooooooo awesome.

 

[RandomName]

Hindsight is sooooooooo awesome.

No kidding.

Now if you'll excuse me I'm going over to the pilot's forum and tell them how my experience with a computer game and the ability to read tomorrow's newspaper taught me how they could avoid all plane crashes.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Lots of butthurt and Monday morning quarterbacking in this thread. I'd be lying to say I was shocked.

 

[CTS]

Lots of butthurt and Monday morning quarterbacking in this thread. I'd be lying to say I was shocked.

They knew in advance the guy was armed (according to the story though and of course it may be wrong), knocking on the apartments next door before going in seems to me to be a reasonable precaution to take.

There seem to be three categories of people when it comes to subjects like these. There are the "OMFG Cops SUCK!" people (usually due to their self-inflicted negative police encounters), the "Whatever the cops did is fine, you don't understand the pressure..." folk, and those who think it's alright to discuss police action and talk about whether they were appropriate or not without any kind of side vendetta.

I'm grateful for our officers, but these particular individuals seem to have made some very bad decisions and I don't think it's wrong to discuss it.

 

[Denny347]

They knew in advance the guy was armed (according to the story though and of course it may be wrong), knocking on the apartments next door before going in seems to me to be a reasonable precaution to take.

There seem to be three categories of people when it comes to subjects like these. There are the "OMFG Cops SUCK!" people (usually due to their self-inflicted negative police encounters), the "Whatever the cops did is fine, you don't understand the pressure..." folk, and those who think it's alright to discuss police action and talk about whether they were appropriate or not without any kind of side vendetta.

I'm grateful for our officers, but these particular individuals seem to have made some very bad decisions and I don't think it's wrong to discuss it.

Good Lord, about every wanted person we find is "supposed to be armed". We get tips all the time and the tipster tells us they always carry or have guns. Thankfully they are full of BS most of the time. I would be VERY surprised if the actual incident was anything close to the story reported. For that reason alone, I reserve judgement.

 

[Denny347]

Aside: Denny, did you have to provide your own patrol rifle or is that something the department provides?

I have my own but we are issued M16a1's converted to semi only. Great rifles with a lot of life left in them.

 

[phylodog]

They knew in advance the guy was armed (according to the story though and of course it may be wrong), knocking on the apartments next door before going in seems to me to be a reasonable precaution to take.

Reasonable to whom? As I mentioned earlier, had they asked the neighbors to evacuate we would be reading about how the police have no right to do that and these officers should have their pensions donated to the "let 'em stay home" foundation while they rot in prison.

Then there is the majority here who cry foul if the police act any differently simply because there is a weapon involved. All police are painted as fools for considering the fact that firearms can be dangerous. We are supposed to assume that every person who is armed is harmless until they begin shooting at us.

There seem to be three categories of people when it comes to subjects like these. There are the "OMFG Cops SUCK!" people (usually due to their self-inflicted negative police encounters), the "Whatever the cops did is fine, you don't understand the pressure..." folk, and those who think it's alright to discuss police action and talk about whether they were appropriate or not without any kind of side vendetta.

There are more than three categories. The police didn't make the decision to engage in a gunfight here, the bad guy did. Had the officers known he was going to shoot them I'm betting that would have done something differently to prevent being shot (maybe I'm crazy). Had they sent the SWAT team in due to reports that this guy was armed we would be reading more *****ing about how all SWAT teams are created by the devil and do nothing but shoot dogs and stomp on babies.

There is far from enough information to judge whether the officers in this situation made poor choices. The reality is that it doesn't matter what they did as many will find fault regardless.

 

[Rookie]

all SWAT teams are created by the devil and do nothing but shoot dogs and stomp on babies.

SIGN ME UP!

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I am normally a pretty good fan of LEO's, however I think 99% of these "raids" ought to be stopped and "SWAT TEAM's" eliminated. If you look at the raid information, you usually find (at least in this area), the "perp" has a fairly normal routine often working a regular job. Why can't they wait until the man is going to work - as he gets out of his car etc. and arrest him, it would be a lot safer for the police and everyone else - then with a proper search warrant - search his apartment? Seems like a lot of the departments just like to play soldier.

I'm a police detective, and I can tell you that this wasn't a SWAT raid. Detectives don't go in on raids. If you read the article, they weren't serving a warrant. They went there to talk to him over allegations of child porn. Then it apparently went down hill real fast.

Eliminating SWAT teams would just end up with more police and more civilians injured or dead. If there's a hostage situation, should they just wait for the bad guy to kill everyone and then pick him up when he's ready to go to work the next day? When someone is barricaded and firing out of the house? Might as well say to eliminate EOD because its too military.

 

[trapperDave]

I am normally a pretty good fan of LEO's, however I think 99% of these "raids" ought to be stopped and "SWAT TEAM's" eliminated. If you look at the raid information, you usually find (at least in this area), the "perp" has a fairly normal routine often working a regular job. Why can't they wait until the man is going to work - as he gets out of his car etc. and arrest him, it would be a lot safer for the police and everyone else - then with a proper search warrant - search his apartment? Seems like a lot of the departments just like to play soldier.

BINGO!!


and do away with the all black stormtrooper suits, dressed all in black with a mask on...you look just like the thugs

 

[atalon]

I am outraged ....
at these peoples' interior decorator.
What in the heck where they thinking: Pokemon and Marvel Comics? Insane. The cops were doing them a favor.

Pikachu is like "don't shoot."

Glad no innocents got hurt but,

Good call sir

 

[phylodog]

BINGO!!


and do away with the all black stormtrooper suits, dressed all in black with a mask on...you look just like the thugs

We wear the exact same blue utility uniform as the officers working the streets with the addition of an external armored vest and a helmet. We only wear face masks when it is extremely cold.

 

[Mark 1911]

Looks like they got their marksmanship qual in NYC.