POLL: Should Profire Resume Parking Trailers Full of NFA Overnight in the Alley?

[danielson]

Firearms are a responsibility, as much as their a right. Im not here to tell people what they want to do with their own lives. Im just stating FACT, that when one of us ****s up, it affects us all... Leaving $200,000 worth of liberal anti gun fuel sitting in a trailer guarded only by a padlock is pretty irresponsible. Of course, its legal, and your perfectly able to do as such, but nothing changes the fact that it effects us all negatively. Im not sure where that trailer was parked exactly. But I drove past that address for 5 years at 5 in the morning and never once did I think it was well lit...

NO! They are not directly responsible for the theft. I will never say anything like that. In the same way I would not say someone is at fault for someone stealing their car, but if you left it, with a trunk full of money, in a dimly lit piece of asphalt, obscured by buildings. I would call that pretty damned irresponsible...

Off topic abit, please refer to my previous post. Every time we make mistakes, they use them against us.

 

[Fargo]

"Leaving machineguns out for crooks to steal" is a bit of an exaggeration, no? Way to blame the victim here, very sporting of you. Do you also blame an attractive woman for being a rape victim? The responsibility for this lies with those who stole from Andrew, not Profire.

Get over the NFA aspect of this crime. You're squawking about it a lot more than any of the LEO on here. And whatever you do, don't ever be the victim of a crime and expect any sympathy around here.

When the folks at profire are forcibly penetrated by someone elses genitalia, they then get to be rape victims.

As things stand now, they are people who poorly secured their merchandise and are the victim of a commercial theft.

Comparing the two is a slap in the face to every rape victim out there.

I have been the victim of a punched window/theft from my vehicle, and do you know what, it happened because I left a laptop in it. It doesn't absolve the thieves, but that was in part MY FAULT I lost my stuff for leaving my valuables out where petty thieves could easily get them.

The difference is, that I didn't leave weapons out for criminals to take and use against others.

 

[ModernGunner]

Don't know Andrew, or Profire. But, from what is able to be gleaned from INGO, Andrew and Profire are a definite . Good enough for me.

I won't vilify Profire for what was an error in judgement other than to opine that what happened should have been anticipated.

However, I wholeheartedly disagree with the opinion that "If they weren't NFA items, it wouldn't be a big deal", or "It's no different than if they left out lawn furniture, or left it locked in a garage (or on the ground)", or anything similar.

Those 'defense arguments' are ludicrous. Yes, it IS different, because they're firearms. Not hand tools, not a wallet, not a car.

The flippant viewpoint that 'it shouldn't matter if he left them out on the ground' is, honestly, silly. This is 2014, not 1884, and it therefore DOES 'matter'. If one owns firearms, it 'automatically' is incumbent upon the owners to take the security precautions necessary to prevent unauthorized access to those firearms. It's NOT the same as "if they stole the guns from a locked safe inside the gun shop."

The important thing is to find them BEFORE one or more of them is used in a crime.

 

[remauto1187]

Ok, so would that be a reasonable attempt to prevent theft of another item in the trailer? (ie: car, motorcycle, PA equipment, construction tools, etc...) Just because this is a trailer full of NFA stuff doesn't mean the legal owner is at fault. What is the point of even putting a pad lock on something if that is not a reasonable attempt to prevent theft?

Reasonable attempt would be put the NFA items in a gun safe in the gun shop/home. A car, motorcyle, PA equipment, etc. cant be used to shoot someone with or lay down fully automatic cover fire. The fact that you cant come up with that yourself makes me wonder about you.

All NFA owners should make a REASONABLE attempt at preventing theft of their NFA items. Would you leave a machinegun in your backseat in open view or lock it in the trunk while in a restaraunt eating? Would you leave a machinegun laying out in your car over night in your driveway? How often are cars broken in to, trailers broken in to or stolen in Indianapolis alone vs. homes broken in to? Bet the home happens less.

BTW I never stated it was his fault but I will state that the odds of it happening could have been prevented by him putting the items in the business gun safe.

 

[Fargo]

Reasonable attempt would be put the NFA items in a gun safe in the gun shop/home. A car, motorcyle, PA equipment, etc. cant be used to shoot someone with or lay down fully automatic cover fire. The fact that you cant come up with that yourself makes me wonder about you.

All NFA owners should make a REASONABLE attempt at preventing theft of their NFA items. Would you leave a machinegun in your backseat in open view or lock it in the trunk while in a restaraunt eating? Would you leave a machinegun laying out in your car over night in your driveway? How often are cars broken in to, trailers broken in to or stolen in Indianapolis alone vs. homes broken in to? Bet the home happens less.

Where I live, it is probably close to 20-30 thefts for every residential burglary.

I would think the reasonable thing to do in this case would be to leave the guns in the Johnson Safes, and get up early to load them.

 

[ljk]

I don't leave anything I wanna keep in my car outside overnight, period. no computer, backpack, sunglasses, gps.

the only think I left in there are child car seats.

 

[jagee]

I don't leave anything I wanna keep in my car outside overnight, period. no computer, backpack, sunglasses, gps.

the only think I left in there are child car seats.

By that logic I guess you don't want to keep your car. A determined thief can get the whole car just as easily as they can get the stuff inside of it.

 

[Lex Concord]

Good try, but you still didn't explain how this makes ME look bad or how this does anything to limit our rights. The only thing you have done is post about your fears. Besides, I have not read where the police have a "beef" about this. Those whom I've communicated with have a different take on the situation. They actually blame the people who stole the trailer. Hmmmm... imagine that!

It's the ignorance of others, silly.

Don't you know we need to behave in a manner to comply with the desires of others when they emote from ignorance, rather than merely taking an opportunity to educate?

Some people

 

[Fargo]

It's the ignorance of others, silly.

Don't you know we need to behave in a manner to comply with the desires of others when they emote from ignorance, rather than merely taking an opportunity to educate?

Some people

So a significant number of machineguns going from a SOT3 into criminal hands is an educational opportunity to turn anti-gunners to our side? Color me a bit skeptical.

 

[cbhausen]

When the folks at profire are forcibly penetrated by someone elses genitalia, they then get to be rape victims.

As things stand now, they are people who poorly secured their merchandise and are the victim of a commercial theft.

Comparing the two is a slap in the face to every rape victim out there.

I have been the victim of a punched window/theft from my vehicle, and do you know what, it happened because I left a laptop in it. It doesn't absolve the thieves, but that was in part MY FAULT I lost my stuff for leaving my valuables out where petty thieves could easily get them.

The difference is, that I didn't leave weapons out for criminals to take and use against others.

You've stated you don't want Profire to lose their license. You've stated you don't want customers to boycott Profire. You stated Profire should not be punished for their actions (or inactions)...

So just what the hell do you want??? Do you just want everyone on here to know how upset you are? Mission accomplished. Of course in hindsight Profire would have done things differently. And my grandfather would not have gotten into the race car that killed him had he known a mechanical failure was about to occur.

All you really have left is "just admit it, I'm right!". You suffered a loss, blamed yourself and moved on. Although on a much greater scale, Profire is in the same situation. Let them handle it. They're getting all the grief they can handle without any of us piling on.

 

[Gluemanz28]

You've stated you don't want Profire to lose their license. You've stated you don't want customers to boycott Profire. You stated Profire should not be punished for their actions (or inactions)...

So just what the hell do you want, besides to TROLL??? Do you just want everyone on here to know how upset you are? Mission accomplished. Of course in hindsight Profire would have done things differently. And my grandfather would not have gotten into the race car that killed him had he known a mechanical failure was about to occur.

All you really have lefe is "just admit it, I'm right!". You suffered a loss, blamed yourself and moved on. Although on a much greater scale, Profire is in the same situation. Let them handle it. They're getting all the grief they can handle without any of us piling on.

FIFY

 

[JollyMon]

I would think the reasonable thing to do in this case would be to leave the guns in the Johnson Safes, and get up early to load them.

So do you believe there should be legislation in place that would force owners of NFA items to keep such items in safes when owners are not present? If not, why? You obviously have an issue with how other peoples property is stored.

Every time I hear that the "reasonable thing to do", its from people who want to enact more limits on my rights. Obviously its only reasonable to have 7 round magazines. Obviously we only reasonably need to have muskets. There is no obvious reason to own NFA items, but if you do its only reasonable to have them stored in safes at all times.

 

[gopurdue02]

I'm somewhat surprised by the comments by some of the INGO members here. There seem to be a general attitude of "Well, it's Profire's property it's there to do what they want" attitude. I'm sorry, I just don't buy that. Let's face the cold hard reality on title 2 & 3 ownership: Through executive action our ability to own title 2 & 3 could be eliminated with a stroke of a pen. Bush did it in when forbid the sale of new machine guns after the L.A. Bank robbery where the thief's leveled heavy automatic fire with illegally converted machine guns. So if one of profire's stolen weapons end up in the hands of a deranged idiot who murders 40 kid's at school, where do you think the blame will fall? On the idiot? Of course not, it will fall on the evil machinegun that has NO place in our society (This will be what Bloomberg and crew jump on). I can only see the mad dash of politics as they race to close this "loop hole" and restrict my rights to own some very cool stuff. So by profires laziness, and that is what it was (IE not wanting to arrive early and load the trailer) my rights, and other title 2 & 3 owners, were put at risk. It doesn't take to much effort to stuff mags & gear the night before and then in the morning load the truck with the toys before heading off. With gun ownership comes responsibilities . I don't leave loaded guns around where my 16 month old daughter can access it. Why can't profire do the same with thief's and belt feed machineguns?

 

[ljk]

By that logic I guess you don't want to keep your car. A determined thief can get the whole car just as easily as they can get the stuff inside of it.

Correct, it's a minivan I paid $2000 2 years and 40k miles ago, I wouldn't blink if someone stole it.

 

[JollyMon]

Bush did it in when forbid the sale of new machine guns after the L.A. Bank robbery where the thief's leveled heavy automatic fire with illegally converted machine guns.

Wrong, Ban of new full autos was in 86, well before Bush was in office. The North Hollywood shoot out was in 1997, Clinton was in office. And even more so.... "Illegally converted machine guns", obviously that law in 86 worked so well.

 

[Lex Concord]

So a significant number of machineguns going from a SOT3 into criminal hands is an educational opportunity to turn anti-gunners to our side? Color me a bit skeptical.

So colored.

I believe there is an educational opportunity here, even though it will likely fall on mostly deaf ears.

Your calls to have Andrew pilloried, however, will not fall on deaf ears; the antis will eat this up as verifiable proof that even gun nuts so nutty as to use an avatar of a child holding an assault rifle (GASP!) think that machine guns are more dangerous than sunbathing next to the cooling pool at Fukushima.

I agree with Que (who, if you'll slow down and read his post, did not advocate anything criminal). Andrew *should* be able to do whatever he wants with his private property. While we may question the wisdom of the actions of him or his employees, it is, after all, his property.

That said, with the laws currently on the books, he has agreed to abide by many rules and regulations as part of being an SOT3 and, if he is found to have been out of compliance, I'm sure he will be held accountable.

It is, however, my opinion that neither he, nor anyone else *should* have to be an SOT3 to possess or sell a full auto or any other weapon, if the Second Amendment is to be respected in full.

This could be, for some, an opportunity to have such discussions and have a chance to get people to reconsider another perspective.

For others, it is apparently an opportunity to, unwittingly or otherwise, serve as crew on the enemy's SAW.

 

[maverick5990]

Poll fail. No bacon.

I vote bacon!

 

[gopurdue02]

Wrong, Ban of new full autos was in 86, well before Bush was in office. The North Hollywood shoot out was in 1997, Clinton was in office. And even more so.... "Illegally converted machine guns", obviously that law in 86 worked so well.

I stand corrected. Regean decided to restrict access to full auto's.

 

[Lex Concord]

I stand corrected. Regean decided to restrict access to full auto's.

I have a feeling you're about to be corrected again in 3....2....1...

 

[hooky]

I stand corrected. Regean decided to restrict access to full auto's.

I have a feeling you're about to be corrected again in 3....2....1...

I'll play. LOL

The National Firearms Act in 1934 restricted access to automatic weapons.