portage traffic stop, second attempt to post

[Kirk Freeman]

Police cannot force your wife to give her identification..normally.

Starr is the case you are thinking of.

http://www.in.gov/judiciary/opinions/pdf/06221001lmb.pdf

I don't understand something--why did you decide to engage in debate? It merely extends the stop and converts everything into a consensual encounter.

 

[ATM]

...To expand upon my last post, I think most people on both side of this issue will agree that it's not good to resist.

...but to say you will not be handing over your weapon again no matter what is quite another. There is legal recourse that is less detrimental to you than physically resisting 4 officers who are also armed.

Nobody has suggested physically resisting.

However, I will not comply with an order to hand over any firearm. It's just not gonna happen.

 

[dansgotguns]

I think both cases could be applicable, but probably more so Richardson because the initial stop was for a seatbelt. In that circumstance, the police are very limited in what they can ask you. You did volunteer that you had a weapon, but I don't think he had a reason to suspect you of a crime or think you were dangerous. (We haven't heard his side yet though) Police can order you to exit your vehicle. Police cannot force your wife to give her identification..normally.
To expand upon my last post, I think most people on both side of this issue will agree that it's not good to resist. If the officer wants to engage you in an argument or legal debate for some reason that's one thing, but to say you will not be handing over your weapon again no matter what is quite another. There is legal recourse that is less detrimental to you than physically resisting 4 officers who are also armed.

My wife was not present her id was in my wallet because we went out earlier in the week and she didn't want to take her purse so I had it and forgot it, the LEO tried to blame the suspicion on me having someone else's ID and after telling him it was my wifes, the LEO changed his suspicion to my wifes last name not being the same as mine. And in regards to handing over my weapon, I didn't say I would resist I just said I'm not givig it to them. If they want to violate ny rights and take it by all means have at it

 

[rw496]

I must have misunderstood when you said "no matter what."

 

[dansgotguns]

Starr is the case you are thinking of.

http://www.in.gov/judiciary/opinions/pdf/06221001lmb.pdf

I don't understand something--why did you decide to engage in debate? It merely extends the stop and converts everything into a consensual encounter.

I didnt decide to go into a debate the LEO did I merely didn't want to do something that violates my rights as well as possibly put my life in danger in numerous ways.

 

[rw496]

I didnt decide to go into a debate the LEO did I merely didn't want to do something that violates my rights as well as possibly put my life in danger in numerous ways.

Yet, you did all of those things. -1 for both sides.

 

[dansgotguns]

Yet, you did all of those things. -1 for both sides.

I agree but what is your reasoning? I'm assuming you meant I did all if those things because I ended up handing over my weapon. If so I agree with you.

 

[mrortega]

My wife was not present her id was in my wallet because we went out earlier in the week and she didn't want to take her purse so I had it and forgot it, the LEO tried to blame the suspicion on me having someone else's ID and after telling him it was my wifes, the LEO changed his suspicion to my wifes last name not being the same as mine. And in regards to handing over my weapon, I didn't say I would resist I just said I'm not givig it to them. If they want to violate ny rights and take it by all means have at it

Not to pick knits, as that has already been done here, but PLEASE use some punctuation. A period after a complete thought would be nice.

 

[stephen87]

Dang it, Ortega! Stealing my thunder and then not accepting my rep. You must be one of those active 50 the mods always talk about.

OP, you quoted me earlier and asked my opinion. I have a message out there asking for clarity on those two cases, Richardson/Washington. I admit that I do sometimes get info wrong, and may occasionally switch some things around. However, from my reading of the cases, it does seem to support that Richardson is about the bulge and Washington about the LTCH stopping all questions regarding firearms. I could be wrong and am willing to accept that.

 

[mrortega]

Dang it, Ortega! Stealing my thunder and then not accepting my rep. You must be one of those active 50 the mods always talk about.

OP, you quoted me earlier and asked my opinion. I have a message out there asking for clarity on those two cases, Richardson/Washington. I admit that I do sometimes get info wrong, and may occasionally switch some things around. However, from my reading of the cases, it does seem to support that Richardson is about the bulge and Washington about the LTCH stopping all questions regarding firearms. I could be wrong and am willing to accept that.

I guess you have to rep some other people once in a while!

I had one simple 3 hr class in college on business correspondence that was more valuable than most of the accounting, marketing and management classes I took. It was taught by a classy little old lady, very kind but very direct. She pounded into our heads, "write all you want but PROOF READ the whole thing and clean it up and get rid of all the extra wordage before you send it!!!" She was pretty old back then (1967 or so) and has probably passed. If so, I hope St. Peter was careful with how he constructed his sentences or she probably had him doing push ups! God bless you, Ms. Bedilian.

 

[Double T]

Who cares which case law you are talking about. I'm sure the cops do not.

Know what each case says, the name is irrelevant.

IC could be helpful to quote, but LEO I am sure do not study case law.

I do not have to show my DL unless I am driving. I do have to show LTCH if asked (once shown, all inquiries regarding firearms are supposed to stop), I will not step out of a vehicle without locking it behind me, I do not consent to illegal search and seizure per the 4th amendment, I will identify myself only (5th amendment), and lastly: am I being detained?

Regardless, the less you say the less can be used against you.

 

[IN_Sheepdog]

OP: one solution to the time out is: if you have a long post ( I would liked the mor detailed version...) is to click and drag over your whole post B4 hitting the submit key and hit ctl c(copy) and then hit submit. If it has timed out, you simply have to relog in, start the thread over and then it CTL V ( paste) and it will instantly put all your text back in. Without the timeout. Sometimes you don't know how long a post/reply is going to be and this avoids having to restart all over again. This works for PC's. Don't know about the Mac world...

 

[Valvestate]

OP: one solution to the time out is: if you have a long post ( I would liked the mor detailed version...) is to click and drag over your whole post B4 hitting the submit key and hit ctl c(copy) and then hit submit. If it has timed out, you simply have to relog in, start the thread over and then it CTL V ( paste) and it will instantly put all your text back in. Without the timeout. Sometimes you don't know how long a post/reply is going to be and this avoids having to restart all over again. This works for PC's. Don't know about the Mac world...

Mac is the same except it's Command+C and Command+V. I recently stepped into the Mac world and still trying to get my bearings.

 

[indianaarsenal]

This is not to uncommon in portage and hobart. When they gave the gun back was it still loaded?? most of the time they unload it and had you the ammo seperate, for "their saftey"

Here is an interesting FYI. in the state of indiana a "factory" remington 870 police, top folding stock, shot gun is supposed to transfer like a pistol for some stupid reason. thus if it is transferred as a pistol it can be carried like a pistol. you should see the look on their face when they ask what you are carrying... priceless and they start to turn pale for some reason.

 

[Valvestate]

This is not to uncommon in portage and hobart. When they gave the gun back was it still loaded?? most of the time they unload it and had you the ammo seperate, for "their saftey"

Here is an interesting FYI. in the state of indiana a "factory" remington 870 police, top folding stock, shot gun is supposed to transfer like a pistol for some stupid reason. thus if it is transferred as a pistol it can be carried like a pistol. you should see the look on their face when they ask what you are carrying... priceless and they start to turn pale for some reason.

How many LEOs have you turned white this year?

 

[jeremy]

This is why I always travel with a Box of Doughnuts to distract 'em...

 

[indianaarsenal]

How many LEOs have you turned white this year?

not this year but have done it twice. once in hobart and once in dyer. both times the gun was holstered in a leg scabbard.

 

[Valvestate]

not this year but have done it twice. once in hobart and once in dyer. both times the gun was holstered in a leg scabbard.

Got video?

 

[dansgotguns]

This is not to uncommon in portage and hobart. When they gave the gun back was it still loaded?? most of the time they unload it and had you the ammo seperate, for "their saftey"

Here is an interesting FYI. in the state of indiana a "factory" remington 870 police, top folding stock, shot gun is supposed to transfer like a pistol for some stupid reason. thus if it is transferred as a pistol it can be carried like a pistol. you should see the look on their face when they ask what you are carrying... priceless and they start to turn pale for some reason.

Yes they unloaded it. I've always thoughy about buying an AOW shotgun and carrying it, anyone know if u can do that? I would assume so since it meets the rewuirements of a "handgun"

 

[Somemedic]

Spoke with an LEO the other night who happened to stop into the station for a bit. We were discussing the fellow downstate who was CCing in a movie theatre and had the police arrest him.

The officer said "well I guess he should have had it covered up all the way for god sakes its a conceal state anyway..."

I immediately called "bull@hit". I asked him to show me the IC that says we have to carry concealed to which he replied "its common knowledge unless you're looking to be harassed".

You could have heard a pin drop.

I responded that I carry OPENLY all the time and have never had an issue. If he also cared to look at ISPs website it clearly stated that Indiana's law is silent on the matter. Carrying, whether openly or concealed, was entirely up to the licensee. He said that it was called a "CCW for a reason" and I said if you can find a Concealed Carry Permit issued by Indiana I will buy you breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Ofcourse then he got a call and split. I havent seen him since damnit.