Possible ATF sting or ???

[Aaronhome27]

This sentence right here is proof positive that is is indeed NOT legal.

If you are a Indiana resident, the only way you may legally carry in the state of Indiana is to have a Indiana LTCH. Indiana does not recognize out of state permits for residents.

Also I think (if memory serves me correct) that once you have residency in a state you must change your DL within either 90 days or 6 months. So that there is another ding against him.

Those were some of my thoughts also. He was basically trying to come off as a legal resident of 2 different states. After you sit back and analyze the whole deal it just gets deeper and deeper in possible senerios. I actually had thought about contacting the BATF to investigate. But how far do I really want to take this little deal. I really dont want to be involved with the BATF but I am not sure I care for this fellow trying to buy a gun possibly illegally. I think it best that maybe I just sit back and chaulk this one up as a learning experience to share and hopefully help others from the conversations that follow.

 

[shibumiseeker]

Those were some of my thoughts also. He was basically trying to come off as a legal resident of 2 different states. After you sit back and analyze the whole deal it just gets deeper and deeper in possible senerios. I actually had thought about contacting the BATF to investigate. But how far do I really want to take this little deal. I really dont want to be involved with the BATF but I am not sure I care for this fellow trying to buy a gun possibly illegally. I think it best that maybe I just sit back and chaulk this one up as a learning experience to share and hopefully help others from the conversations that follow.

You've warned other folks about it, that's about as far as it needs to go.

Most of us do not want to get ensnared into doing anything illegal, but the flip side is, do you want to be the person who is assisting the authorities in enforcing pointless laws or regulations?

It would be different if this was someone who you felt might be someone who was looking to buy a gun to use in violent crime. But from your post it was just someone who was looking to circumvent a stupid legality that would prevent him from buying that particular gun when he could legally own that gun in other circumstances. For many folks who can legally own a gun, the advantage in buying a gun from an individual is that there is no paper trail the government can follow, so it's not that unusual for folks to shy away from going through an ffl.


Maybe he was shady, maybe he was part of a sting of some sort (from the media or .gov), but as long as you didn't feel he was looking to buy your gun to go commit a crime with a victim, why create problems for another gun owner and be a snitch for the government and their endless regulations?

 

[patton487]

I think this was definitely a batf sting. Sad thing is, another victim who is not as astute as the OP is only another phone call away.

Some poor slob who doesn't know any better will be going to jail so this overbloated, useless bureaucracy can justify it's existence......

 

[Kingpin]

I have a question do you have to do all that work to sell a gun to a private individual ? if you sell a gun to a person who is illegal and you dont know it have you commited a crime ? if thats the case shouldnt a form 4473 be done on all sales? bear in mind i'm just wondering so if I ever sell a gun I dont break the law...

 

[Aaronhome27]

I have a question do you have to do all that work to sell a gun to a private individual ? if you sell a gun to a person who is illegal and you dont know it have you commited a crime ? if thats the case shouldnt a form 4473 be done on all sales? bear in mind i'm just wondering so if I ever sell a gun I dont break the law...

Yes and No. It is not much work to verify the individual is a resident from Indiana (Drivers License works well for that). A good way to protect your self against selling to a felon is simply ask. An even better way is ask to see a LTCH. If the person lies to you about any criminal history that is on them. If you KNOWINGLY sell to a person with a criminal history that does not allow them to own a firearm that is on you. Just be careful and verify.

If I buy, sell, or trade I usually just ask to see DL and LTCH and also offer mine. I do not record the info but I use it for my knowledge that they are legal to buy firearms and are residents of Indiana.

 

[Drakkule]

I always keep phone numbers, and if they don't have a LTCH i ask them to sign a piece of paper stating they are not barred from owning a firearm, i have never had anyone say no, and i have returned the favor so we are both covered.

 

[Bunnykid68]

If he has been here for 10 months wouldn't his DL from the other state be invalid here. I thought once you changed your residence you had six months to update your DL

 

[mrjarrell]

If he has been here for 10 months wouldn't his DL from the other state be invalid here. I thought once you changed your residence you had six months to update your DL

Unless you're a government agent on TDY.

 

[JohnP82]

Handled correctly on your part. Good job

 

[HandK]

You did the right thing +1 for you

 

[Walt_Jabsco]

I think this was definitely a batf sting. Sad thing is, another victim who is not as astute as the OP is only another phone call away.

Some poor slob who doesn't know any better will be going to jail so this overbloated, useless bureaucracy can justify it's existence......

Yep. I know I sure don't want anyone out there preventing people from selling firearms to people who aren't aloud to have them. Like felons.

 

[Davegrave]

My suggestion would be never trade with someone who didn't have both an IN lifetime card and IN id.

Why does it have to be a Lifetime LTCH?
My dad didn't get the lifetime when he renewed. He just got another 5 year. He's got a pretty bad heart condition and figured, why spend the money if he won't need it longer than 5 years, and if he makes it that long it'll be a pleasant reminder when he renews.

 

[MrSmitty]

If I were interested in a gun and the guy offered to pay the transfer fee, hell yeah I'd do it!!....oh yeah maybe cause I can legally own guns!, plus I'm not a BATFE narc. I bet the guy was really Canadian and he was going to smuggle it into Canada!!

 

[SSGSAD]

Regardless of whether it was a sting or not you made the right decision not to sell the rifle to this person. Is it really that much of a hassle to meet at FFL? With your offer to pay the fees that was more than reasonable and I would say there was certainly something wrong with this person.

^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^ GOOD JOB !!!!!

 

[Davegrave]

I bet the guy was really Canadian and he was going to smuggle it into Canada!!

God I hate Canadians!

 

[J_Wales]

While virtually every every illegal firearm transaction is splashed across every newscast and newspaper around (unless of course you are the BATF running an illegal "Fast and Furious" operation), the conscientious, heads up actions from law abiding gun owners such as yourself don't raise a peep.

Be that as it is, excellent job Sir.

Thank you too for bringing this to our attention.

 

[zibby43]

Not quite entrapment, if it was an ATF setup. If his attempts at persuasion were a little bit more intense and unrelenting though . . . and if you would have carried out the sale . . .

IC 35-41-3-9
Entrapment
Sec. 9. (a) It is a defense that:
(1) the prohibited conduct of the person was the product of a law enforcement officer, or his agent, using persuasion or other means likely to cause the person to engage in the conduct; and
(2) the person was not predisposed to commit the offense.
(b) Conduct merely affording a person an opportunity to commit the offense does not constitute entrapment.

 

[dooleydclown]

Another possibility could have been working for the mayor of New York, since he has trouble catching people selling guns illegally at gun sales. Whatever the case great call!

 

[Leo]

Several years ago, I saw a shabby dressed man walk into a pawn shop in Kokomo, and try to sell a revolver he said he had found. The man also said he had no ID. The Owner turned him away and told me he thought it was an ATF test, and that the gun serial number looked like it had been altered. The man that was dressed like a bum had clean polished shoes on and we watched him get into a crown vic that was parked at the end of the block. If you are in the gun business, you are better to error on the cautious side.

 

[acelungger]

There was something wrong with the deal You never know, it could of been a sting, or a felon, or a different setup one of those you don't come back from. I sold a AR the other day and the man drove 4 hours to buy it, we had made plans to go to our range so he could test fire it.
While I was waiting for him to show up I slipped my 380 in my pocket.
Everything went good, but you never know
Greg