Pulling the Trigger

[spencer rifle]

After looking over the Arming the Family thread and re-reading "Lights Out," I have some of the same concerns I've always had. Some of the tools I have are designed for the destruction of other people. When used as intended they will result in the death of one made in God's image. On a smaller scale, same as carrying a defensive firearm and encountering violence on the street or at the mall. But TEOTWAWKI will be organized violence on both sides.

Sure, they may be using their free will to harm those I love and am responsible for. But I am getting to be of the age and faith that I could consider just dying and avoiding having to make the decision. The kids have all grown up and moved away. No grandkids. SWMBO doesn't want to live in the world after SHTF, despite her considerable skills and abilities. How much responsibility do I have to the rest of what would remain of society to use my "fire extinguisher, but for criminals" to reduce evil in the world? Might be as Gandalf said. "Yet it is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule."

The best result would be that politicians and circumstances never force me into a position to have to make that choice or pull that trigger. The next best result might be like scaring off a mugger by pulling a defensive firearm. Though that doesn't prevent them from continuing their evil somewhere else on someone else made in God's image. Or returning with more like them at their backs.

Apparently I have to resign myself to the fact the trigger might have to be pulled and someone fellow human might have to die, and to prepare accordingly. I'm not big into guilt (that's SWMBO's department). But it makes me angry that fools and narcissists and demons in human form might force me (and you) into such a conundrum.

 

[bobzilla]

I have no been in that situation but I tend to agree. I have a feeling I'll be more angry at the individual(s) that forced me into that situation than I will have grief or guilt. Maybe that's jus me getting more curmudgeonly every day. We are all free to make choices. Making poor choices is not an excuse to avoid those consequences.

 

[Paul30]

I can't see a situation I ever kill someone in my lifetime. I can see someone leaving me no choice but to shoot them. That is them committing suicide, not me killing them. If a person faces you in your home protecting yourself and family and refuses to simply turn around and leave safely when given the option, then they leave you no choice and I would feel no guilt about using deadly force. Odds are if they are nuts enough to charge an armed man in his own home simply protecting his family, then if allowed to kill you and leave they would likely repeat that act as many times as the victims allow it. I'm not real emotional about it, I don't hold any hate or anger towards a violent criminal, but I'm also not going to stand there and allow them to harm me or mine in my own home as long as I have the means to stop them. Nope, shoot to stop their violent actions and go to bed with a clean conscience.

 

[Onebad06vtx]

I'd Rather Be Judged by 12 Than Carried by 6

 

[Leadeye]

I believe that I'll have figured out what to do when that situation arises, but I've always thought that when the situation calls for firepower, use it, without hesitation.

 

[TheGhostRider]

I think about these things often.
I’m getting too old to fight or run. I’ve still got warrior skills and mindset but lack the physical strength and stamina to do what I use to do with ease. My mind is still a wmd. But… I find myself preferring to avoid any altercations if possible. I don’t want to use deadly force on anyone. A large part of my concern is the legal ramifications… the follow up lawsuits, defending my actions etc.
BUT… if someone intends me or my family harm… I can and will unleash an unholy storm that would make satan pause. It will be what it will be and I won’t lose sleep over it.

 

[patience0830]

After looking over the Arming the Family thread and re-reading "Lights Out," I have some of the same concerns I've always had. Some of the tools I have are designed for the destruction of other people. When used as intended they will result in the death of one made in God's image. On a smaller scale, same as carrying a defensive firearm and encountering violence on the street or at the mall. But TEOTWAWKI will be organized violence on both sides.

Sure, they may be using their free will to harm those I love and am responsible for. But I am getting to be of the age and faith that I could consider just dying and avoiding having to make the decision. The kids have all grown up and moved away. No grandkids. SWMBO doesn't want to live in the world after SHTF, despite her considerable skills and abilities. How much responsibility do I have to the rest of what would remain of society to use my "fire extinguisher, but for criminals" to reduce evil in the world? Might be as Gandalf said. "Yet it is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule."

The best result would be that politicians and circumstances never force me into a position to have to make that choice or pull that trigger. The next best result might be like scaring off a mugger by pulling a defensive firearm. Though that doesn't prevent them from continuing their evil somewhere else on someone else made in God's image. Or returning with more like them at their backs.

Apparently I have to resign myself to the fact the trigger might have to be pulled and someone fellow human might have to die, and to prepare accordingly. I'm not big into guilt (that's SWMBO's department). But it makes me angry that fools and narcissists and demons in human form might force me (and you) into such a conundrum.

Borrow not trouble from the morrow. Plenty of trouble today to keep you busy. Burn that bridge when you get to it.

 

[Aszerigan]

A lot of people - especially on this forum - puff their chests out when they're hypothesizing about a self defense situation. It's nice to see Spencer Rifle with an introspective post about how it would affect him. Having met him several times, this is completely in line with his personality, and I see him as a bigger person for challenging the typical cowboy perspective often adopted by many young men on this board.

Having said that, it helps when you take religion out of the equation. I don't have a religion. I have been put in the position to draw my weapon once. I would have used it without hesitation and I wouldn't have felt bad about it. I don't see people as creatures designed by some higher power. I see them as good and bad by the decisions they make. My opinion may shift at will depending on your attitude and aggression.

That situation was also the main reason we moved far away from the city.

 

[Bugzilla]

I have a feeling I'll be more angry at the individual(s) that forced me into that situation than I will have grief or guilt.

The one fist fight I was in, a guy swung a pool cue at me. Put my arm up and he broke it over my forearm. I don’t consider myself a good fighter, but he must have been worse. I left with a sore forearm, he left looking like he got hit by a truck. I remember being pissed that he swung the cue at me instead of his fist. I felt no grief or guilt.

 

[bwframe]

I trained quite a bit for a few years. I consider that time and investment fundamental in my understanding of this subject.

Self defense training with various tools, (and no tools,) combined with a dab of competitive shooting sports to enhance/humble firearms handling skills makes for a solid foundation. An understanding of what can and cannot be accomplished.

One of the main things learned in those training years is to be a continual student of self defense. Including the study of proper mentality, tools (new and old,) and above the rest, avoidance of needing to use any skills acquired.

"The greatest victory is that which requires no battle.” Sun Tzu

 

[patience0830]

The one fist fight I was in, a guy swung a pool cue at me. Put my arm up and he broke it over my forearm. I don’t consider myself a good fighter, but he must have been worse. I left with a sore forearm, he left looking like he got hit by a truck. I remember being pissed that he swung the cue at me instead of his fist. I felt no grief or guilt.

Rules to live by.
1) Never hit anything harder than a pillow with your fist. Always use a stick.
2) Always assume you are outgunned and fight like your life depends on it. Because it does.
3) Do not provoke a man to anger without good reason.
See rule 2.

 

[Steve]

I CC every day. And every day, I pray that I will never have to use it. I strongly believe that that best way to survive a fight is to never engage in one. But if the situation arises that gives me no alternative but to use deadly force to protect me or mine, then I will not hesitate to do so. It is something that I have thought about for years and I believe that I would be at peace with my decision should that be an action I would be forced to take. If it boils down to the bad guy or me, I know who will come on on top.

 

[manifest destiny]

There shouldn't be guilt in a situation of true self defense.

 

[1nderbeard]

I haven't spent a lifetime thinking about it, and I am a Christian. With that being said, here's my .02.

It is your duty to protect those under your charge. For you, that's SWMBO. I'd argue that you have a duty to protect your life too, but I'm in my 30's and have 3 young children.

Never been in the situation. At risk of sounding like a keyboard warrior, anyone who enters in my house seeking to do harm to anyone inside will have to go through me. If I have anything to say about it, they won't walk out. Especially in the end of world scenarios, anyone who makes it out alive will be coming back with more buddies.

Hope it never happens.

 

[Shadow01]

A moral society has an obligation to protect those that are not able to protect themselves. Today that may require the use of a firearm. This is a judgement that I would not be in fear of. My other sins worry me more than protecting those that need protecting.

 

[Ark]

I had to think about this when I first got into guns. For me it boils down to killing being a sin, but failing to act and allowing the death of myself, a loved one, or an innocent being the greater sin. The key distinction being that I'm not the one making the decision to force me into that action. Others made it necessary in order to preserve life I value.

That's sufficient for most any "civilized" context. Things blur when the circumstances get more and more extreme. Hopefully I die of something else before it comes to that.

 

[BigRed]

I believe that I'll have figured out what to do when that situation arises, but I've always thought that when the situation calls for firepower, use it, without hesitation.

Amen.

These are things over which I miss no sleep.

 

[DadSmith]

I'd Rather Be Judged by 12 Than Carried by 6

I know I'll be judged by one at the end, and live my life accordingly. I do my best not to do anything that would offend the great judge of all.

 

[Walking Bear]

Good thoughts. Unless you have been in this situation you don’t know. People have made the decision to carry a weapon and taken time to become proficient with it.
I have military and law enforcement background and carried a sidearm in the course of duty.
The mental side of use of deadly force is harder . Can you kill another human being. I have known police officers that couldn’t.
If you are not sure you can.
Avoid situations and places that put you at a higher risk.
Get a home security system.

 

[88E30M50]

The thing about having the belief in reincarnation is that it might reduce the emotional baggage that comes with use of deadly force. I believe that we've been here before and we will be here again. Each of our lives is an expedition to grow, learn and be tested. At the end of each one, we are judged.

Death is not the end, but the return to home. If my life has spun out of control and I have sunk so low as to warrant another person ending it to protect the innocent, then they may well be doing me a favor by shooting me. That is the model that makes the most sense to me at least.

If confronted by an attacker that requires the use of deadly force to be stopped, I will try to maintain that mindset.