Question for gun shop owners:

[Scutter01]

I've been to several gun shops who sport the "No Loaded Guns" signs on the door. Most have told me some form of "That doesn't apply to you, only to the people who can't help but unholster their loaded gun inside. It's just an insurance thing." I wholeheartedly disagree with the sign and feel it could be better worded to convey the true intent. However, this is not the gist of my question.

I was pleased to see a new gun shop in my town today. I didn't have time to stop, but I did drive by the front to teak a quick peek in the window as I went past. I was immediately struck by three things that made me reconsider shopping there when I next have free time:

1) It didn't appear to be an actual shop. I saw a bunch of guys sitting around a folding table. This made me think that it was the "gun club hangout" type of shop, where the storefront is just an excuse to have a social club. I admit that this may not be a fair assessment given my extremely brief glimpse.

2) It had a "No Loaded Guns" sign in the window. This immediately turned me off to shopping there, for reasons related above and in other threads.

3) There was no safe place to unload.

Here is my question for gun shop owners:

If your store wears such a sign, why would you not provide a safe place to unload? Even a simple sand barrel? If the sign is for "insurance purposes", then couldn't the case be made that you are liable for any accidental discharge on your property when requiring people to handle loaded guns before entering the store? Even if it's not a legal liability for you, do you not feel an obligation to provide a safe place to unload? Surely the minimal cost of a simple sand barrel far outweighs any negative press you would receive should a potential customer accidentally shoot himself or someone else when unloading at your doorstep?

I'd rather keep my loaded pistol safely in its holster when I shop in your store. I promise that it's not going to jump out of its holster all on its own and start blasting away. The minute you force me to clear kydex, you are creating an unsafe environment and that's an environment I choose not to patronize. I will reserve my wallet for the stores who respect that.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Can't answer as specifically as you'd like, for I'm not a shop owner.

However, Bradis does have a little unloading "barrel" in their front vestibule.

The answer you're liable to get, however, is "Our insurance requires us to post signage like that."

-J-

 

[Hammer]

I look at it like this, their sign is a suggestion. Not a law.

I doubt it's an insurance thing, because if the insurance company said no loaded firearms, that means the employees too. And every gun shop I've been to they are all armed.

 

[Gamez235]

We don't have a no loaded guns sign because we understand and support our customers 2nd Amendment rights, but we do expect our customers whom are bringing in a gun to trade, sell, or get worked on bring it in unloaded.

 

[JetGirl]

We don't have a no loaded guns sign because we understand and support our customers 2nd Amendment rights

There's not one in ours, either.

 

[Scutter01]

I'm not really interested in the sign. That's been discussed ad nauseum. I'm more interested in why you'd post the sign but not provide a safe way to comply.

 

[lovemachine]

I'm not really interested in the sign. That's been discussed ad nauseum. I'm more interested in why you'd post the sign but not provide a safe way to comply.

I'm just assuming that those gun shops havent thought of a "safe barrel" to unload firearms at.

 

[Cwood]

I even let Jahred carry in my shop the other day!

 

[Shoots4Fun]

I've never understood the sign at all, so I appreciate this thread and will need to look for others discussing and debating this as I haven't seen it here.

Also, this may be a dumb question, but what does the barrel do, i.e. why can't you unload it safely without the barrel? I'm guessing people don't fire into the barrel. Sorry if I'm thick on this.

 

[CandRFan]

I've never understood the sign at all, so I appreciate this thread and will need to look for others discussing and debating this as I haven't seen it here.

Also, this may be a dumb question, but what does the barrel do, i.e. why can't you unload it safely without the barrel? I'm guessing people don't fire into the barrel. Sorry if I'm thick on this.

I'm sure most everyone could unload without a safety barrel or something...but for that one person that fumbles it having the bullet plow sand is much better than it richocheting off the ground and around the place.

 

[Stryker Action]

We allow customers to carry loaded firearms in as long as it is on them and not coming in for trade, sale or repair.

 

[Scutter01]

I've never understood the sign at all, so I appreciate this thread and will need to look for others discussing and debating this as I haven't seen it here.

Also, this may be a dumb question, but what does the barrel do, i.e. why can't you unload it safely without the barrel? I'm guessing people don't fire into the barrel. Sorry if I'm thick on this.

A sand barrel gives you a safe direction to point the muzzle in case you have a discharge as you are handling your firearm, especially when loading and unloading.

 

[abnk]

Cannot answer for gunshop owners, but unloading barrels tend to promote complacency. I don't think their intention is for customers to unload before entering the premises, but rather to not bring loaded firearms in.

I prefer to leave where it is, whether OC or CC. I have never been asked to leave because of it.

 

[strut70]

I was in buds gunshop in lexington ky today....big sign on the door.NO LOADED GUNS INSIDE....in this situation made me feel pretty good. I bet there was 200 customers in there......prob the reason for the rule....same for gun shows to many folks in one area

 

[JoshuaW]

I was in buds gunshop in lexington ky today....big sign on the door.NO LOADED GUNS INSIDE....in this situation made me feel pretty good. I bet there was 200 customers in there......prob the reason for the rule....same for gun shows to many folks in one area

Why does the number of customers matter? If someone is carrying, they should be responsible to not whip it out in the store.

A sign that says something like "Buying or selling? Please verify your firearm is unloaded before entering." Then have a sand barrel. Near the holsters another sign that says "Please do not try holsters with a loaded firearm."

 

[strut70]

I think you answered that yourself.....SHOULD be resposible...

 

[esrice]

If you saw the sign, would you really unload it and then walk in with an empty carry gun? Wouldn't it make more sense to simply leave it in the car or at home?

If you're bringing the firearm in to be worked on our to look at some holsters, wouldn't you have already unloaded it at home?

I guess I don't see a reason to unload a firearm at the entrance to a gun store, sign or not. I also think its silly when folks do this at the 1500.

 

[Scutter01]

I think you answered that yourself.....SHOULD be resposible...

Then a better sign is "Keep your loaded handgun in its holster, you goober."

 

[IndyGunSafety]

We have no such sign. We have no insurance requirement to have such a sign.

My policy is straightforward: "Don't show me yours, and I won't show you mine!"

I do however have to restrict live ammo and loaded guns in the classroom during NRA courses by NRA policy.

As for an unloading barrel: I have been asked this a few times. I don't want ANYONE handling a loaded firearm on my premises! PERIOD! Students for NRA courses are warned well in advance of the course of the NO LIVE AMMO in the classroom rule, so they should not need to unload in my building when they arrive.

Scutter, I do see the first hand the need for these signs and could also see changing my policy if some of the behavior I see in the shop continues.

This is just one example and I have posted this before: A man, his wife and baby came into the shop. To make a long story short, in an instant he drew his loaded XD, pointed it at his wife's chest (and baby's head!) and racked the slide to clear it!

"Woman and Baby Killed at Local Gun Shop"

Great job "safety guy"! I'm out of business.

I get so tired of people picking up firearms, pointing them at my chest with their finger on the trigger and being oblivious as to why this is a problem. But being an educational facility I nearly always say: "Have you considered taking a safety course?" And when I get the "Oh I've been around guns my whole life" answer I say "I ask because you have been pointing that gun at my chest with your finger on the trigger." I follow it up with: "I have to say something because we educate people here about firearm safety. It's our main business." People react in one of two ways. They look around and leave, never to be seen again, or they look around, leave, and later that day their class registration is in my email.

Bottom line, I don't want loaded guns handled in my shop, and that's why my policy is as stated. Keep it in your holster and don't touch it and we'll both be fine.

But I do understand how some shop owners could become weary and place such a sign after being swept and covered over and over again by people who don't know better. Having repeatedly been on the receiving end of such behavior, I can't judge or blame them and would not hold it against them.

At Indy Gun Safety we are trying to change safety attitudes and ignorance one student at a time!

Then a better sign is "Keep your loaded handgun in its holster, you goober."

+1! This sign will be posted on my door and in the shop TODAY!

 

[target64]

Here is my question for gun shop owners:

If your store wears such a sign, why would you not provide a safe place to unload? Even a simple sand barrel? If the sign is for "insurance purposes", then couldn't the case be made that you are liable for any accidental discharge on your property when requiring people to handle loaded guns before entering the store?
The gun store did not require the person to bring a loaded gun to the store. The store did not indicate the time, place, or manner in which the firearm was to be unloaded. That decision was the firearm owners choice.

Even if it's not a legal liability for you, do you not feel an obligation to provide a safe place to unload? Surely the minimal cost of a simple sand barrel far outweighs any negative press you would receive should a potential customer accidentally shoot himself or someone else when unloading at your doorstep?
By placing a sand barrel could it not be argued that by providing it, you now are liable for any acccidents or incidents due to it use? You are assuming that everyone knows what it is used for, and also how to properly use it.

My comments in red..
I do not agree with the signs, but I understand why they are there. Now here is an issue, some customers are offended by them, while others feel more comfortable that they are there. So what is the best way to appease two totally different mindsets?