Question regarding "mah rights"

[MichaelZWilliamson]

{redacted due to conversation change.}


Interesting historical note on OC vs CC: In Early America, and in a great many other cultures, Common Law gave a man the right to openly carry arms to defend himself and his party. The act of concealing was considered deceitful and to show criminal intent, and was therefore regulated.

Interesting how we reached a point (society overall, not IN specifically) first where self defense was only tokenly recognized--you had the right to defend yourself with lethal force...as long as it was bare handed against Arnold Schwarzenegger armed with a minigun. And then gruddgingly with a concealed weapon that of necessity would be small and less effective than a larger one.

 

[2A_Tom]

 

[lonehoosier]

Originally Posted by RND
appreciate you calling me “sir.” It’s a sign of respect. Type of carry and modifying are two different topics of discussion and have little to no bearing on each other. My three word post was trying to keep it simple, STUPID. Apologize for your “butt-hurt.

 

[churchmouse]

QFT

This post is poorly worded. Please consider revision.

Reported.

Yes it was reported. But I am thinking you all have this dealt with.

 

[2A_Tom]

Thanks, Bully.

 

[churchmouse]

Thanks, Bully.

 

[2A_Tom]

We are a self regulating machine.

Lots of CLP, Hopps and KY in here.

 

[BADWOLF]

Here you go for thoes with out google-fu.

Carrying a Gun Does Not Justify Detention, Indiana Supreme Court Says - Hit & Run : Reason.com

 

[BADWOLF]

And also in our wonderful state of indiana you are no longer required to have your LTCH on your person. Indiana law finaly cought up with our license requirements. Now the only person you need to show your LTCH to is the prosecuting attorney after which they have 24 hours to destroy any and all paperwork referencing your arrest and prosecution.

 

[2A_Tom]

Under one version of the ConC (HB 1424) legislation they make it a requirement to carry DL Or State ID to prove who you are if you are carrying a handgun.

One step forward one step back.

Edit: Add bill number.

 

[98cirrus]

Play it smart.

There is a story floating around out there about an Iraq war vet, who open carried in a Walmart. I am absolutely unaware of all the details in that story, but it needs to be considered. He tried to argue with police in the parking lot and he was killed, right in front of his wife
. I don't think I will ever argue with or refuse to do, any simple to comply with request from an officer. Maybe someone else can confirm or deny that story. But even if it's hooey, Mr. Officer gets what he wants from me.

 

[Malechite138]

Indiana is an inform state, meaning technically if asked you must show ID. Technically you can avoid this and the misdemeanor charge it carries if you fail to provide ID, but you have to be very specific in your wording when dealing with an officer. The Indiana codes that deal with this are 34-28-5-3 and 34-28-5-3.5. Ironic that I literally just looked this up a couple days ago wondering about this myself. If you come in contact, I would record the incident to prove that you said this specifically to an officer "Officer, do you in good faith believe that I've committed an infraction or an ordinance violation?" If he says yes, then you are obligated to show your ID. If he says no, then you are not obligated, but I would expect it to get nasty, ugly and end up in court...so you better have it on video. I specifically worded it that way because that is the way it is written in the IC (Indiana Codes). The act of open carry itself is legal and not in itself a basis for officers to initiate contact to see if there is a violation. But if pressed an officer will find a different reason to start contact with you (usually through a traffic offense). I'm not sure if we have to show our LTCH on request, I'll have to look that up later (late for work today sorry). But here some useful links:

Indiana Code Title 34. Civil Law and Procedure § 34-28-5-3 | FindLaw

Indiana Code Title 34. Civil Law and Procedure § 34-28-5-3.5 | FindLaw

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/indiana.pdf

Just watched a video on youtube.

A person was opening carrying in a walmart, a group of officers show up to seek ID and carry license.


Now, as far as i know, if asked for ID in indiana we must give id. and naturally same with carry lic.

These officers then run a check on his id, presumably to see if any warrants and such...

Please correct me if im wrong here. Isn't that a slight on his 4th amendment right? He showed proof he is licensed to carry. therefore no crime has been committed. I thought providing ID was simply I am who i state I am, not consent to run a records check.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCTezGsbjjM



**Edit**

i suppose they need to run it to ensure its a valid carry lic etc..... i guess im just dumb or short sighted

 

[Expat]

I am looking for the dogpile... no sign here...

 

[2A_Tom]

If a dog pile was ever called for it is this thread. So much fail and mis information.

From IC quoted above.

(A) name, address, and date of birth;  or

(B) driver's license, if in the person's possession;  and

 

[MichaelZWilliamson]

Indiana is an inform state, meaning technically if asked you must show ID. Technically you can avoid this and the misdemeanor charge it carries if you fail to provide ID, but you have to be very specific in your wording when dealing with an officer. The Indiana codes that deal with this are 34-28-5-3 and 34-28-5-3.5. Ironic that I literally just looked this up a couple days ago wondering about this myself. If you come in contact, I would record the incident to prove that you said this specifically to an officer "Officer, do you in good faith believe that I've committed an infraction or an ordinance violation?" If he says yes, then you are obligated to show your ID. If he says no, then you are not obligated, but I would expect it to get nasty, ugly and end up in court...so you better have it on video.

Or just show him your ID?

I'm really not clear on how doing so is such a hindrance. Technically, you can completely ignore a cop under certain circumstances, but why escalate if you can be helpful? I wouldn't answer any questions, but identifying who you are doesn't incriminate anything.

I have little love for most modern cops, but making their job easier also makes your own life easier. I had a SWAT team come to the house looking for someone who hadn't been here in 5 years and two owners. They had a warrant. I accepted their word on the warrant. They searched the house, determined said person wasn't here, agreed to check the county tax records that I was owner in question, apologized and left.

Could I have made a stand at the door, called my attorney, read the warrant aloud beginning to end to ascertain validity, followed them around recording every movement? Probably. Would have that resolved a non-issue better than not hindering them? Doubtful.

"I've never heard of this person, they don't live here, are not here, I'm the owner since June 2016, we bought it from (renovator) who bought it at tax auction in 2014. To the best of my knowledge said person couldn't have been here since 2013 or before."

"We have a warrant to look for her and are coming in."

"Knock yourself out."

 

[2A_Tom]

I love Cops. They have a job that I could not do. As long as an officer is doing his duty he gets my total respect, If he pulls me over for A violation I will be respectful and polite. If he tickets me I will sign it thank him ans suggest he have a good day. I have actually had officers seem to feel bad that they had to give me a ticket. One said so.

However It is not their job to accost me for no reason at all. I have and will be respectful and stand on my rights. I will not acquiesces to ignorance of the law.

I am a Citizen not a servant.

 

[MichaelZWilliamson]

I love Cops. They have a job that I could not do. As long as an officer is doing his duty he gets my total respect, If he pulls me over for A violation I will be respectful and polite. If he tickets me I will sign it thank him ans suggest he have a good day. I have actually had officers seem to feel bad that they had to give me a ticket. One said so.

However It is not their job to accost me for no reason at all. I have and will be respectful and stand on my rights. I will not acquiesces to ignorance of the law.

I am a Citizen not a servant.

I would probably preface with, "Certainly, sir, but may I ask why?"

If he has no reason then I would start recording, yes.

 

[Viking Fires]

Sometimes a feller just wants to throw on a one size fits all Uncle Mike's holster and their custom two tone Bryco Arms 9mm and strut around Wal-Mart, and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[MichaelZWilliamson]

Sometimes a feller just wants to throw on a one size fits all Uncle Mike's holster and their custom two tone Bryco Arms 9mm and strut around Wal-Mart, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Nothing wrong with that? My GOD, man! A BRYCO??

And a slingshot speedo and chaps, too, right?

 

[2A_Tom]

Mine is a Hi-Point in an Uncle Mike's on my sweats at the bottom of my cheeks, but do not worry I'm holding them up with my strong hand.