Question/s re: Expunged Misdemeanor LTCH

[Kirk Freeman]

Hmmm. Can you tell me where it is documented?

Ok, Ok, I'll get the chicken tacos later. Geez.

Look at Title 35 in the definitions §, "proper person" is defined at 35-47-1-7 (emphasis added):

IC 35-47-1-7
"Proper person"
Sec. 7. "Proper person" means a person who:
(1) does not have a conviction for resisting law enforcement under IC 35-44.1-3-1 within five (5) years before the person applies for a license or permit under this chapter;
(2) does not have a conviction for a crime for which the person could have been sentenced for more than one (1) year;
(3) does not have a conviction for a crime of domestic violence (as defined in IC 35-31.5-2-78), unless a court has restored the person's right to possess a firearm under IC 35-47-4-7;
(4) is not prohibited by a court order from possessing a handgun;
(5) does not have a record of being an alcohol or drug abuser as defined in this chapter;
(6) does not have documented evidence which would give rise to a reasonable belief that the person has a propensity for violent or emotionally unstable conduct;
(7) does not make a false statement of material fact on the person's application;
(8) does not have a conviction for any crime involving an inability to safely handle a handgun;
(9) does not have a conviction for violation of the provisions of this article within five (5) years of the person's application;
(10) does not have an adjudication as a delinquent child for an act that would be a felony if committed by an adult, if the person applying for a license or permit under this chapter is less than twenty-three (23) years of age;
(11) has not been involuntarily committed, other than a temporary commitment for observation or evaluation, to a mental institution by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority;
(12) has not been the subject of a:
(A) ninety (90) day commitment as a result of proceeding under IC 12-26-6; or
(B) regular commitment under IC 12-26-7; or
(13) has not been found by a court to be mentally incompetent, including being found:
(A) not guilty by reason of insanity;
(B) guilty but mentally ill; or
(C) incompetent to stand trial.

 

[snafu21]

I do wish you the best of luck on getting your permit. I've never understood a lifetime punishment on some of the petty victimless crimes. Sure, if you make a mistake, you take your punishment like an adult and move on. If you afterwards are a fine upstanding productive person, then some mistake 20 years ago shouldn't keep hindering you.

 

[PrinceofPeace]

In looking at IC, another challenge arises where it states that a person is disqualified from receiving a LTCH if a person has been arrested for a class A or B felony... I was arrested for Class B felony but convicted of misdemeanors, which have now been sealed/expunged... Anyone have insight as to this catch 22?

 

[PrinceofPeace]

Ok, Ok, I'll get the chicken tacos later. Geez.

Look at Title 35 in the definitions §, "proper person" is defined at 35-47-1-7 (emphasis added):

IC 35-47-1-7
"Proper person"
Sec. 7. "Proper person" means a person who:
(1) does not have a conviction for resisting law enforcement under IC 35-44.1-3-1 within five (5) years before the person applies for a license or permit under this chapter;
(2) does not have a conviction for a crime for which the person could have been sentenced for more than one (1) year;
(3) does not have a conviction for a crime of domestic violence (as defined in IC 35-31.5-2-78), unless a court has restored the person's right to possess a firearm under IC 35-47-4-7;
(4) is not prohibited by a court order from possessing a handgun;
(5) does not have a record of being an alcohol or drug abuser as defined in this chapter;
(6) does not have documented evidence which would give rise to a reasonable belief that the person has a propensity for violent or emotionally unstable conduct;
(7) does not make a false statement of material fact on the person's application;
(8) does not have a conviction for any crime involving an inability to safely handle a handgun;
(9) does not have a conviction for violation of the provisions of this article within five (5) years of the person's application;
(10) does not have an adjudication as a delinquent child for an act that would be a felony if committed by an adult, if the person applying for a license or permit under this chapter is less than twenty-three (23) years of age;
(11) has not been involuntarily committed, other than a temporary commitment for observation or evaluation, to a mental institution by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority;
(12) has not been the subject of a:
(A) ninety (90) day commitment as a result of proceeding under IC 12-26-6; or
(B) regular commitment under IC 12-26-7; or
(13) has not been found by a court to be mentally incompetent, including being found:
(A) not guilty by reason of insanity;
(B) guilty but mentally ill; or
(C) incompetent to stand trial.

So, is intimidating a LEO the same as resisting?

 

[PrinceofPeace]

I do wish you the best of luck on getting your permit. I've never understood a lifetime punishment on some of the petty victimless crimes. Sure, if you make a mistake, you take your punishment like an adult and move on. If you afterwards are a fine upstanding productive person, then some mistake 20 years ago shouldn't keep hindering you.

I agree, but I am presently biased. Thank you, though!

 

[pudly]

Thanks Kirk for the additional info. Missed it. I have to spread around the rep.

 

[vitamink]

What were the ic codes you were convicted of? That would help.

 

[mainjet]

The Prince of Peace is Jesus. Am I just finding out that, not only is Jesus a new member of INGO, but that He also has arrests for felonies and misdemeanor convictions on His criminal record? This is all very confusing.

 

[PrinceofPeace]

The Prince of Peace is Jesus. Am I just finding out that, not only is Jesus a new member of INGO, but that He also has arrests for felonies and misdemeanor convictions on His criminal record? This is all very confusing.

I think back in His day he was convicted of what may have been deemed by today's standards as felonious behavior. Hence His beating and crucifixion for the world. But I digress...

 

[PrinceofPeace]

What were the ic codes you were convicted of? That would help.

After having been prescribed a week long and large dose of corticosteroids by my dentist I suffered corticosteroid induced psychosis. A symptom of corticosteroid induced psychosis is, apparently, suicidality. Another symptom is paranoia. I was threatening (self-inflicted) suicide via handgun. I stood off LEO for 6 hours. Evidently I threatened a LEO while they were trying to get me to surrender to them. I was arrested for intimidation against a LEO and charged with a Class B felony. While I have very little memory if the standoff, I accepted responsibility nonetheless and served probation and community service. The plea agreement was that my Class B felony would be reduced to a Class A misdemeanor upon completion of my sentence, which it was. Now, two years later, the prosecutor has agreed to expunge/seal my record and the court has ordered that. So, my Class A misdemeanor for intimidating a LEO is now sealed/expunged. This whole episode has been extremely embarrassing, humiliating and scary for my family and me. For what it's worth, I have never been in trouble with the law, have always attended church regularly (still do), hold both a bachelors and master's degree, am still married to the love of my life and have two beautiful kids. I am still employed by the same company i was before this happened to me. My physician cried with me about what happened. My friends and family still love me and know that what happened to me was a tragedy. Again, I did it and it has been a most awful experience.

 

[remauto1187]

I am not familar with Indiana's wording or definitions of Expunged/Sealed but I am quite familar with Illinois. After receiving a Governors pardon AND expungement order in Illinois. The records were NOT sealed, they were expunged. That means that "you" drive your butt up to the arresting department and they literally hand you the file which even includes your mug shot. The Illinois State Police get mailed a copy of the expungement order and forward it to the FBI and they both wipe their records of "your" criminal charge. It isnt there for ANYONE to see anymore. Its exactly like it never happened.
Indiana may or may not be the same. If I were you I would get it in writing as to the EXACT status of your record from the FBI, State Police and the arresting agency. Do not trust ANYONES word as to the status of you charge/conviction. You ask the question to all 3 agencies and you will get 3 very different answers. The ones in charge of enforcing the law seldomy are knowledgable let alone accurate at answering legal questions.

 

[PrinceofPeace]

I am not familar with Indiana's wording or definitions of Expunged/Sealed but I am quite familar with Illinois. After receiving a Governors pardon AND expungement order in Illinois. The records were NOT sealed, they were expunged. That means that "you" drive your butt up to the arresting department and they literally hand you the file which even includes your mug shot. The Illinois State Police get mailed a copy of the expungement order and forward it to the FBI and they both wipe their records of "your" criminal charge. It isnt there for ANYONE to see anymore. Its exactly like it never happened.
Indiana may or may not be the same. If I were you I would get it in writing as to the EXACT status of your record from the FBI, State Police and the arresting agency. Do not trust ANYONES word as to the status of you charge/conviction. You ask the question to all 3 agencies and you will get 3 very different answers. The ones in charge of enforcing the law seldomy are knowledgable let alone accurate at answering legal questions.

Thanks for the good advice. In Indiana expunged used to mean what you outline above. Not necessarily so anymore. Now records are "expunged" or "sealed" from public view but are wide open to LEO. DHS, FBI and courts. My court ordered expungement/seal says that no law enforcement agency, etc... may disclose my records to "anyone without court order other than in LEO's official duty."

 

[chezuki]

IANAL, but given the scenario, I'd be very surprised if your LTCH was approved without a fight (if at all).

(g) A license to carry a handgun shall not be issued to any person
who:
(1) has been convicted of a felony;
(2) has had a license to carry a handgun suspended, unless the
person's license has been reinstated;
(3) is under eighteen (18) years of age;
(4) is under twenty-three (23) years of age if the person has
been adjudicated a delinquent child for an act that would be a
felony if committed by an adult; or
(5) has been arrested for a Class A or Class B felony, or any
other felony that was committed while armed with a deadly
weapon or that involved the use of violence, if a court has found
probable cause to believe that the person committed the offense
charged.
In the case of an arrest under subdivision (5), a license to carry a
handgun may be issued to a person who has been acquitted of the
specific offense charged or if the charges for the specific offense are
dismissed. The superintendent shall prescribe all forms to be used in
connection with the administration of this chapter.

IC 35-47-1-7
"Proper person"
Sec. 7. "Proper person" means a person who:
(1) does not have a conviction for resisting law enforcement
under IC 35-44.1-3-1 within five (5) years before the person
applies for a license or permit under this chapter;
(2) does not have a conviction for a crime for which the person
could have been sentenced for more than one (1) year;
(3) does not have a conviction for a crime of domestic violence
(as defined in IC 35-31.5-2-78), unless a court has restored the
person's right to possess a firearm under IC 35-47-4-7;
(4) is not prohibited by a court order from possessing a
handgun;
(5) does not have a record of being an alcohol or drug abuser as
defined in this chapter;
(6) does not have documented evidence which would give rise
to a reasonable belief that the person has a propensity for
violent or emotionally unstable conduct;
(7) does not make a false statement of material fact on the
person's application;
(8) does not have a conviction for any crime involving an
inability to safely handle a handgun;
(9) does not have a conviction for violation of the provisions of
this article within five (5) years of the person's application;
(10) does not have an adjudication as a delinquent child for an
act that would be a felony if committed by an adult, if the
person applying for a license or permit under this chapter is less
than twenty-three (23) years of age;
(11) has not been involuntarily committed, other than a
temporary commitment for observation or evaluation, to a
mental institution by a court, board, commission, or other
lawful authority;
(12) has not been the subject of a:
(A) ninety (90) day commitment as a result of proceeding
under IC 12-26-6; or
(B) regular commitment under IC 12-26-7; or
(13) has not been found by a court to be mentally incompetent,
including being found:
(A) not guilty by reason of insanity;
(B) guilty but mentally ill; or
(C) incompetent to stand trial.

 

[PrinceofPeace]

IANAL, but given the scenario, I'd be very surprised if your LTCH was approved without a fight (if at all).

I'll keep you posted about what happens particularly re: the mitigating medical circumstances that landed me in this predicament.

 

[chezuki]

I'll keep you posted about what happens particularly re: the mitigating medical circumstances that landed me in this predicament.

I'm definitely curious. Good luck!

This is the guy to call for these things!

The Law Offices of Guy A. Relford

 

[PrinceofPeace]

I'm definitely curious. Good luck!

This is the guy to call for these things!

The Law Offices of Guy A. Relford

Thank you!

 

[mainjet]

There are simply not enough facts here for me to really feel like I know what happened. However, if they did grant you a LTCH I personally would question the system. IF, all you said was true then I feel very badly for you not because you cannot get a LTCH but simply because of all the other problems that it causes and the fact that your life and the lives of others present that day were put in danger.

Having said that, I do not know how long ago this occurred. But if it was anytime with in the last few years, I would be one that would vote against the LTCH. But that's just me and I mean no disrespect by it.

By your own admission you threatened suicide, threatened to harm a law enforcement officer and sounds like you had a gun at the time. Even if it was due to medication it is very difficult for a law enforcement agency to know that this was truly accidental. After all of that it seems that the better course of action would be err on the side of caution and do not grant a LTCH at least for a while.

I wish you the best of luck. Not necessarily in getting your LTCH but life in general and with your young family. I hope that aside from this one incident, everything else in your life goes well.

I have a family member very close to me that I love dearly but if they granted a LTCH to that person I would not be happy. I think everything is okay at this point but how can I get into their mind and really know? I can only go by past actions and this persons actions were nothing along the lines of what you describe.

 

[PrinceofPeace]

There are simply not enough facts here for me to really feel like I know what happened. However, if they did grant you a LTCH I personally would question the system. IF, all you said was true then I feel very badly for you not because you cannot get a LTCH but simply because of all the other problems that it causes and the fact that your life and the lives of others present that day were put in danger.

Having said that, I do not know how long ago this occurred. But if it was anytime with in the last few years, I would be one that would vote against the LTCH. But that's just me and I mean no disrespect by it.

By your own admission you threatened suicide, threatened to harm a law enforcement officer and sounds like you had a gun at the time. Even if it was due to medication it is very difficult for a law enforcement agency to know that this was truly accidental. After all of that it seems that the better course of action would be err on the side of caution and do not grant a LTCH at least for a while.

I wish you the best of luck. Not necessarily in getting your LTCH but life in general and with your young family. I hope that aside from this one incident, everything else in your life goes well.

I have a family member very close to me that I love dearly but if they granted a LTCH to that person I would not be happy. I think everything is okay at this point but how can I get into their mind and really know? I can only go by past actions and this persons actions were nothing along the lines of what you describe.

Thanks for your opinion/s albeit not germaine to my originally posted questions.

 

[rdavis006]

I had same dilemina and didn't disclose on my application and I had no issues what so ever getting my LTCH

Good Morning. Without getting into too much unneeded detail, I am looking for some guidance re: obtaining a LTCH post misdemeanor convictions expungement. My attorney has sent the court order granting the expungement to the IN State Police (although I have not yet heard from the ISP confirming sealing my misdemeanor convictions). I understand that law enforcement, DHS, FBI (and a few other government entities) still have access to my "sealed/expunged" record. Based on my last sentence, does anyone know if I can obtain an Indiana LTCH? If so, what steps must I take to begin the process? What do I include on the application? In other words, although my misdemeanor record is to be sealed, law enforcement can still see the convictions. So, do I indicate that I have never been convicted of a misdemeanor per the court ordered expungement/sealing of my record or do I disclose the misdemeanors convictions? I appreciate the feedback and apologize if I have created a post that has been answered elsewhere. I have searched the site and have found several posts that partially address my situation but they don't answer all of my questions.

 

[PrinceofPeace]

I had same dilemina and didn't disclose on my application and I had no issues what so ever getting my LTCH

Seriously? Thanks for your response.